Aaron or not

[Varqm]

Was the Kosminski mentioned by Andersson and Swanson Aaron or not ?
What are the chances he was'nt ?

[Robert]

To be nitpicking for a moment, Anderson didn't mention a Kosminski - Swanson and Macnaghten did.

[revpetero]

If not Aaron then who?

Was the Kosminski mentioned by Andersson and Swanson Aaron or not ?
What are the chances he was'nt ?

If not Aaron Kosminski then who do you suspect?

[Natalie Severn]

Hi revpetero,
Yes it could have been Aaron Kosminski but there isnt a shred of evidence and no other police officers appear to have agreed that it was Kosminski,in fact they nearly all disagreed with each other.Anderson "thought" it was a "Jew"----Anderson would have wouldnt he!----good gracious, it couldnt have been a Christian!And "born again" Anderson was Swanson"s boss,---so think brown noses!
Best

[The Good Michael]

Yes it could have been Aaron Kosminski but there isnt a shred of evidence

Natalie,

So the name was pulled out of a hat? Why was Kosminski named if there wasn't a shred of evidence? Surely he existed and was a contemporary candidate. He was in 2 different asylums and was out of control. There may have been dozens of loonies institutionalized at the same time, so why was Kosminski's name selected? Was he the only Jew available? As research turns up new items, such as the newspaper reports of Kosminski and the dog incident, he even becomes more viable. Is he a sure thing? Of course not, but declaring that there isn't a shred of evidence is irresponsible.

Mike

[Roy Corduroy]

Hi,

I read Evans that at the climactic moment, Lawende was taken to ID him, and could not. Not for any special reason, he just couldn't. Yes there are other theories.

Roy

[Natalie Severn]

Natalie,

So the name was pulled out of a hat? Why was Kosminski named if there wasn't a shred of evidence? Surely he existed and was a contemporary candidate. He was in 2 different asylums and was out of control. There may have been dozens of loonies institutionalized at the same time, so why was Kosminski's name selected? Was he the only Jew available? As research turns up new items, such as the newspaper reports of Kosminski and the dog incident, he even becomes more viable. Is he a sure thing? Of course not, but declaring that there isn't a shred of evidence is irresponsible.

Mike

Mike,
He wasnt actually out of control any of the time if you read his case notes.But some are missing .But yes,he must have been acting very strangely when they actually took him to the asylum.
Yes, I do agree that it could have been Aaron Kosminski.But I dont have a scrap of evidence from anyone to back it up.So if Anderson knew why didnt he say why he knew? What had he to lose?
Major Henry Smith who was the acting Chief Commissioner of the City Police thought Anderson"s "theory" was preposterous---it being based upon Jewish people being prepared to shield "one of their own" from gentile justice.Smith was actually at the Mitre Square murder scene and in charge during the time there was this "alleged" City Suspect under watch ,and Major Smith thought the whole thing ridiculous and wrote his reasons down at length.Abberline too dismissed the idea of a "Polish Jew" and said so to reporters,as did several other senior police or men involved in the investigation such as Walter Dew etc.

[truebluedub]

Hi,
I'd say that the Kosminski mentioned by Anderson/Swanson/Macnaghton was Aaron, as based on what Martin Fido found he is the only Kosminski who was placed in the asylum albeit later than one would anticipate.
I would tend not to see David Cohen or Nathan Kaminsky as the Anderson suspect because both Swanson and Macnaghton used the name Kosminski.

Kind regards
Chris Lowe

[Robert]

(2) Kosminski -- a Polish Jew -- & resident in Whitechapel. This man became insane owing to many years indulgence in solitary vices. He had a great hatred of women, specially of the prostitute class, & had strong homicidal tendencies: he was removed to a lunatic asylum about March 1889. There were many circumstances connected with this man which made him a strong 'suspect'.



The last sentence suggests other factors in addition to those already mentioned. And the fact that it is in the past tense indicates that police interest in "Kosminski" antedated the memorandum.

[revpetero]

Hi revpetero,
Yes it could have been Aaron Kosminski but there isnt a shred of evidence and no other police officers appear to have agreed that it was Kosminski,in fact they nearly all disagreed with each other.Anderson "thought" it was a "Jew"----Anderson would have wouldnt he!----good gracious, it couldnt have been a Christian!And "born again" Anderson was Swanson"s boss,---so think brown noses!
Best

Sorry Natalie my post doesn't sound like I meant it.

What I meant was that if the Kosminski meantioned wasn't Aaron then which Kosminski was it?

As I am aware (I may be wrong as I often am) Aaron is the only Kosminski that can be found in the hospital records.

Peter

[Stewart P Evans]

Kosminski

All this has been debated in the past. It must be remembered that Macnaghten indicated in his 'memorandum' that no evidence existed against any of the three named individuals. He was careful to preface his listing of the names with the words - "No one ever saw the Whitechapel murderer, many homicidal maniacs were suspected, but no shadow of proof could be thrown on any one. I may mention the cases of 3 men, any one of whom would have been more likely than Cutbush to have committed this series of murders..."

This is plain English - ...'no shadow of proof' existed... In regard to 'Kosminski' he further stated, "...had strong homicidal tendencies..." but whatever does that mean? This especially in light of the statement in 1891, on Aaron's committal to Colney Hatch, that he was not considered dangerous to other people. That is far removed from having 'strong homicidal tendencies.' There is absolutely nothing known anywhere to support such an idea. However, the fact that Aaron Kosminski was freely walking a dog deep in the City in Cheapside in December 1889, over a year after the appalling murders of August - November 1888, hardly suggests 'a homicidal maniac', 'a sexual maniac of a virulent type', or a man out of control of himself at that time.

Anderson never named his 'Polish Jew' suspect but indicated that he was from a 'low-class Polish Jew' family. The sole source for naming Anderson's suspect as 'Kosminski' (with no forename) is the convenient last line of the annotations on the rear free endpaper of Swanson's copy of Anderson's book and the details given in the preceding lines. Of course this identification may also be implied from the description of the 'Kosminski' suspect given by Macnaghten in his 'memoranda'.

Martin Fido's personal Cohen/Kaminsky theory is his answer to the anomalies and contradictions thrown up by accepting Aaron Kosminski as Jack the Ripper. To Martin's way of thinking there is no way that he was the murderer, just as to Paul Begg there is no way that Cohen was the killer. Indeed, the idea that Cohen could have been Anderson's suspect and Jack the Ripper is rather negated by Anderson's interview in the summer of 1889 as well as his McKenzie footnote in The Lighter Side of My Official Life.

As there is no actual evidence as to why Kosminski's name was selected as a suspect, why was it then? Well, the indications are that it was a combination of circumstantial and hearsay evidence - which is far from being direct evidence. It would seem that some individual conveyed to the police suspicions about Kosminski being Jack the Ripper at some stage between 1888 and 1894, possibly as early as 1890. It could well be that, when the name was communicated to the police in this connection, the October 1888 police notebooks and reports of the house-to-house enquiries carried out were checked for those fitting the Anderson criteria of 'living in the immediate vicinity of the scenes of the murders' and 'if not living absolutely alone, his people knew of his guilt and refused to give him up to justice' and Kosminski was found amongst the undoubtedly many there and matched these criteria (as no doubt many there did also).

The bottom line is that all the extant historical writings and comment on this particular suspect have to be examined and assessed. Then as individuals we have to assess what we feel is a common sense and likely answer to what was recorded. There is no definitive answer to this, it must remain a very subjective conclusion that is drawn. However, we should remain objective and thorough in drawing our conclusions.

[Jeff Leahy]

Hi,

I read Evans that at the climactic moment, Lawende was taken to ID him, and could not. Not for any special reason, he just couldn't. Yes there are other theories.

Roy

Hello Roy

Just a quick piont. I beleive it is generally accepted that Lawende is unlikely to be Swanson's witness. This is because he was called in as a witness at a later time to a seperate event ie the Coles murder.

Therefore i personally would go with Shwartz (although Levy's name has been mentioned) This creates other problems if you accept that Aaron is the Polish Jew suspect, which I believe the most likely senario.

That is 'was Aaron BS man?' and 'Was Stride a JtR victim?'

Clearly even if new information does turn up identifying him as Swansons identified suspect, the debate will continue whether or not Aaron was Jack the Ripper?

Jeff

Good morning everyone..back after a massive computer crush..running on one hard drive back on amazingly fast 1 terror Lepard soon

[Stewart P Evans]

Generally Accepted?

Just a quick piont. I beleive it is generally accepted that Lawende is unlikely to be Swanson's witness. This is because he was called in as a witness at a later time to a seperate event ie the Coles murder.
Therefore i personally would go with Shwartz (although Levy's name has been mentioned) This creates other problems if you accept that Aaron is the Polish Jew suspect, which I believe the most likely senario.
That is 'was Aaron BS man?' and 'Was Stride a JtR victim?'
Clearly even if new information does turn up identifying him as Swansons identified suspect, the debate will continue whether or not Aaron was Jack the Ripper?
Jeff

It is news to me that 'it is generally accepted that Lawende is unlikely to be Swanson's witness. This is because he was called in as a witness at a later time to a seperate event ie the Coles murder.' As I recall, this was a suggestion of Paul Begg's.

It is a nonsense to suggest that if Lawende was the witness called in an attempt to identify Sadler as Jack the Ripper in February 1891, he would not be used in any other attempt. There is no evidence anywhere of Schwartz ever being used as a witness in any attempted identification. It is possible that Lawende was used again in 1895 in the case of William Grant.

It must also be remembered that although Schwartz was said to have witnessed a man 'pulling' and 'throwing down' a woman [identified as Stride] it was stated at the time that this was 15 minutes before the body was found and it was not clearly proved that the man Schwartz saw was the murderer.

[Jeff Leahy]

I think the point would be 'That if Lawende had said Aaron Kosminski was JtR, but then refused to testify because he might be hung" then he is unlikely to be asked to identify another witness a few weeks later, if he had already said Aaron was JtR."

Of course as you point out 'it isn't out of the realms of possibility'

and whether Stride is a Victim is also hotly debated: checkout this weeks Ripper cast on the subject..

Jeff

[jason_c]

No evidence against Kosminski being the Ripper or violent?

1 Threatening his sister with a knife.
2 Sole occupant of certain premises after nightfall.
3 The disputed Identification.


In fact the ID is the only contemporary evidence we know of against anyone. Wether only points 1 and 2 lead directly to the ID i do not know. Or was there additional evidence against him that led to police suspiscions?

Natalie, i think you do Anderson a disservice giving him the belief that only a Jew could have committed such a crime. Im sure Anderson dealt with many Christian murderers in his time. His worldview would not have been moulded by only his religious knowledge but also his career in CID.