Arbitrary Selective Rejection and Acceptence of Coincidences

[gnote]

And thats where we should research. Ie unless someone can provide me with a credible alternative to Aaron Kosminksi (which I am Happy to take on Board)

There is only one reasonable source of research. surely?

I've never ruled out Kosminski and have said previously i think he's one of the better suspects we have "on file". At the same time I think you need to be careful when using terms such as 'credible'.

Keep in mind i'm not saying these suspects are on equal terms but if you're "happy to take on board" credible alternatives have at this:

http://forum.casebook.org/showthread.php?p=329425&posted=1#post329425

[Batman]

ITs simply irrelevant.

Jack either required surgical skill…. Surgeon Professional…Gull etc

or he did NOT…Medical knowledge of some kind…Student or Butcher Type

or he needed None of the above

How simple do you need that to be???

Its lose its vague but its what we have… Its only 'Myth' twisters that have an interest of some sort to try and make that mean anything other than what that says?

There was only ONE man on the lose in Whitecahpel.. THe multi-theorists are only one step away from madness themselves

Dont join them 'that way lies the dark side of ripperology'

Yours Jeff

Well Jeff as you can plainly read, while you critic the medical knowledge believers as supporting Gull, you now have your own new multiple Jack the Rippers believer liking the idea Jack has no medical skill. They are on your team on this one, not the medical knowledge believers.

To say the Coroner said SURGICAL skill (your caps not mine) and to find he didn't say that is not simply irrelevant as you put it. It goes to show that when you raise up someone like Gull you do not seem to follow that neither Dr. Philips or Dr. Brown made any mention of a surgeon, which is what Gull was.

What Dr. Brown says clearly is that they have the medical knowledge to not just know where the anatomy is, but the way to remove it. This does not imply a surgeon or surgical skill but it does require medical skill (removed using methodology). For example, an anatomical pathologist is not a surgical pathologist. A student shadowing a doctor could learn the way to remove these organs.

Furthermore I find the idea of Jack the Butcher ridiculous. The inside of a cow, pig, horse are not even remotely like a humans. Our verticialness and gravity as well as other adaptations through natural selection have seen to that. The closest species is an ape like a gorilla, chimpanzee, bonoboo.

As far as I can tell your own reference from the A-Z which contains my reference of choice, Nick Warren, has given good reasons that remain unanswered while allowing for the neighsayers to realize how easy a modern simulation would be if they think JtR was simulating on horse/pig/cow guts. The fact is nobody has pulled this off because Nick Warren is standing there over a pile of these guts on a table without a carcass and you can already see that random smash and grab can never cut it (pun intended).

[Jeff Leahy]

OK let me make a statement guaranteed to annoy everyone..

We live in a ripperology world where almost all the recognised 'experts' support the idea that the identity of 'Jack the Ripper' was unknown?

Yet this is not the evidence of most supporting historical testimony.

The only expert who actually recognises the reality of the source evidence is Martin Fido…

Begg, Evans, skinner And Rumblow, have no answers (To my knowledge) at least Fido alone presents one?

So Martin Fido is the only place to start looking. ANd I believe he has at least answer'd part of the problem if he hasn't got everything correct. And why should he? the ripperolgy world has changed sine 1987. We now know more about Aaron Komsinski and the Kalish community.

But any new theory must go past the watchful eyes of the one man who really understands this subject in Great detail…Martin Fido

Yours Jeff

[Errata]

Errata's Bumper Book of Holiday Fun
Chapter 1: Let's Play Saucy Jack

.. is the first thing in my head, reading this.

It's funny, but I trained for a rescue squad for mass cas. scenarios, and we were given precisely this test.

The theory was that we were going to identify and stabilize wounds in someone pinned, or trapped under a collapsed building, and we would not be able to lay eyes on the injuries. We were given this exact test. If we could retrieve the ball, we could work with no sight. It was a training tool.

It wasn't until yesterday that I thought about it in terms of the Ripper.

[Jeff Leahy]

Further too: Its not that I believe that Aron Kosminski was JtR that is finally relevant.

I'm simply saying that having studied the problem/puzzle of who Jack the Ripper actually was? My own personal opinion is that all the other suspects, could not have committed the crimes..

Where as Araon Kosminski can NOT be eliminated.

So we have one suspect left….Kosminksi was the suspect

And thats where we should research. Ie unless someone can provide me with a credible alternative to Aaron Kosminksi (which I am Happy to take on Board)

There is only one reasonable source of research. surely?

Yours Jeff

PS and don't call me 'shurely'

[Jeff Leahy]

Not wishing to derail, and there's other threads for this, but: Emma Smith was attacked by a group!

Why does no-one believe her? Because she changed her story from one telling to the next? Never mind the extreme trauma she experienced?

I'm surprised there wasn't a question of whether she attacked herself.

Ah!! YOu raise a very good point.

Go back and look at the route Emma smith took from bow to the corner of Old Montigue Street junction of brick lane….???

It could well have taken you past Greenfield Street?

And why would not a young 22 year old Aaron Kosminski have been apart of group of young men? a group of young men who Anglosized their name as 'COHEN' ???

Emma Smith went through the heart of 'Kosminski' territory when she returns home…

And Jack has to learn some how, especially if he is young, say 22 years Old (A gang)?

We are looking at early attacks, and MO's differ, as my talk on the Hammersmith Nude Murders will explain….be there on March 7th 2015

Yours Jeff

[Ausgirl]

We have skill, knowledge and MO for 2 consecutive murders....and that gets tossed out like dishwater when a woman gets her throat slit on anarchist property a month later?

It still seems like the most irrational conclusion one could make to me.

Cheers

Not really 'irrational' to think perhaps JtR was too far off his nut/too drunk/interrupted by factors real or imagined, to do the same thing to other victims.

Though I don't think Emma Smith or Liz Stride were Ripper victims, I think Mary Kelly very definitely was. Intestines/organs removed, mutilation.. just, he had more time or motivation than usual.

[Ausgirl]

from Emma Smith to Alice McKenzie

Not wishing to derail, and there's other threads for this, but: Emma Smith was attacked by a group!

Why does no-one believe her? Because she changed her story from one telling to the next? Never mind the extreme trauma she experienced?

I'm surprised there wasn't a question of whether she attacked herself.

[Ausgirl]

YES precisely, or perhaps the conditions. lighting, solitude, disturbance and Time played a factor in what Jack could achieve

I agree totally

Yours Jeff

Well, it's nice to be agreed with. But I don't see how any of it -proves- JtR's level of medical/anatomical knowledge.

Perhaps he learned where things were by rummaging about in corpses? Or donkeys at the glue factory? Or maybe his dad was a doctor and there was books lying about.. Maybe he took a wack at medical school and failed utterly (the way many killers have a go at the army and don't last long), maybe he was, as Errata suggests, just reaching in and groping for what feels like what he wants, and knew only the general vicinity of the organs.

I tend to think he had a pretty good idea of exactly where thing were, personally. But how he came by that knowledge is anyone's guess.

[Jeff Leahy]

exactly. and I would add the victims behavior, actions and level of inebriation.

Serial kilers change their MO extremely

Its the 'perpose' you need to look at, so I totally agree

As I said I'm giving a lecture on the Hammersmith Nude Murders, Lomdon March 7th 2015

They vary far more than the JtR murders. There was only ONE killer. Any other suggestion is miss understanding the facts and sources. Complication.

Serial killers are effected by many external factors when they kill

and Jack The Ripper operated in many different conditions which explains the variations and changes in MO from Emma Smith to Alice McKenzie

Yours Jeff

[Michael W Richards]

And my point is that there are explanations other than different knife wielders.

As I recall in my youth there were also explanations as to why the earth was flat and what happened to people who sailed to the edges........but seriously...the issue doesn't exist if you examine the 2 most similar murders, consecutively executed within 2 weeks.

Instead of looking a month down the road at a victim that has no indication whatsoever that she was murdered to be cut up on the streets after her death. As it is certainly indicated in the first 2 murders.

The ONLY 2 murders in the "Group" that give us evidence the victims were actively soliciting when they met their killer.

We have skill, knowledge and MO for 2 consecutive murders....and that gets tossed out like dishwater when a woman gets her throat slit on anarchist property a month later?

It still seems like the most irrational conclusion one could make to me.

Cheers

[Ausgirl]

Let's say someone takes a hard rubber ball and ties is to the bottom of a 2x3 foot cardboard box. Piece of strings have been sort of laced over the ball, securing it to the bottom where the strings are tied off. Like strapping down a piece of luggage on top of a car.

Now let's say they tie stuff on top of that ball. A bundle of aquarium tubing, a stuffed animal, a water balloon, etc. all tied to each other, all tied to the box.

Errata's Bumper Book of Holiday Fun
Chapter 1: Let's Play Saucy Jack

.. is the first thing in my head, reading this.

[Abby Normal]

Time
Lighting
The killers mental state at the time
Distractions, like sounds that someone or something mght be close
Alcohol consumption

exactly. and I would add the victims behavior, actions and level of inebriation.

[Jeff Leahy]

Perhaps the two Victims in which he exhibits more deftness were just killed on nights Jack was a bit more lucid/in control of himself than he was on other nights.

YES precisely, or perhaps the conditions. lighting, solitude, disturbance and Time played a factor in what Jack could achieve

I agree totally

Yours Jeff

[GUT]

Those factors might make an act appear less than skillfully executed, maybe, but then Phillips stated what he perceived was that the killer was more skilled than the wounds themselves suggest, that some acts were as follows..., " My own impression is that that anatomical knowledge was only less displayed or indicated in consequence of haste. The person evidently was hindered from making a more complete dissection in consequence of the haste."

This was also the closest to dawn of any of the murders, there was some light. I think what you suggest as factors for consideration were considered by Phillips, and his findings still detected some knowledge. This is also the only murder that spawned investigations into possible medically trained suspects.

Your argument GUT attempts to explain why the five murders do not appear equally executed, my response is that the reason may be as simple as different knife wielders, not one man impeded by any possible factor under the sun, or one man with fluctuating knowledge or knife skills.

When you have that opinion from the physician who saw and examined more Canonical victims than any other person, fluctuating skill, its worth taking note.

And my point is that there are explanations other than different knife wielders.