Is Kosminski still the best suspect we have?

[jmenges]

Tim Krajcir liked to masturbate in public. He was busted doing that in a Walmart parking lot. He also liked to kill women, and did that at least nine times.

JM

[The Good Michael]

But Monty how could those named by police at the time be suspects.

The police were Keystone Kops.

In spite of having his workplace and home address they didn't even look into Cross.

After a 4 hour interview they know nothing about Hutch.

They didn't even have enough brains to look at Kelly's ex's.

[Well they are a few of things we are expected to believe anyway] I could go on for pages.

Obviously this is sarcasm because we know the opposites of all these things are more likely than not.

Mike

[drstrange169]

"As for Kosminskiīs masturbation sessions, they are hotly debated."

Mass debated, it seems.

[Jonathan H]

As I wrote, move along, move along, nothing to see here ...

The most important aspect of the Swanson Marginalia is that the suspect allegedly confessed.

The suspect knew he was identified, e.g. the people in the room could see that he knew the jig was up (this theme is repeated) and his expression, if not his words, made this crystal clear.

You got me!

Remember that this was written in the wake of the Aolf Beck outrage of 1904-5 that proved that a dozen witnesses could be honestly wrong about a posiitive identification (as pointed by the outraged Mentor in 1910 to Anderson), even about a person that some of the women had slept with.

Anderson does not provide this 'confession' innovation in either version of his memoirs, but Swanson does.

Either this is because it is from him or it is, as I believe, from a chastened Anderson who is acutely aware of the Beck factor in discrediting witness identifications (let alone by a single witness), as he has been made publicly aware, and so has allowed himself to become, eh, carried away.

Swanson is asserting that the prime suspect gave the game away (he wasn't that deranged, hey?)

Let me ask a question:

Why did Anderson never reveal to the public that the Polish suspect was long deceased?

[Scott Nelson]

And there lies the rub.

However a Kosminski is named.

Monty

Yes, Neil. But which Kosminski? A hairdresser, or a bootmaker, tailor, or someone else? If only Swanson hadn't written that he died soon after confinement to the asylum, and it was also found that he had said to a newspaper years earlier that the murders were the work of a man who was by then (1895) dead - one year after Macnaghten's memo on Kosminski and the other suspects, giving scant details about them, had been written -- suggesting that Swanson was aware of, and likely referring to, Kosminski. The hairdresser Aaron Kosminski would then not seem to fit Anderson's suspect like a tailored glove. Clearly Swanson was referring to a Kosminski who he believed was dead by 1895, and not someone else. And Arthur Anderson stating that his father believed the Ripper was someone who was dead (Anderson dying in 1918, Aaron Kosminski in 1919). So there's arguably three bits of historical data on the suspect's premature death that run contrary to the hairdresser, Aaron's candidacy. But this is pretty crappy historical data, but it's mostly we got to go on at the present.

The Sims 1907 piece that says the Polish Jew suspect (presumably the hairdresser, Aaron) was at liberty for a considerable time after the murders (assuming MJK was the last). This would eliminate someone like David Cohen, who was not at liberty for a considerable time after the murders, but instead was taken permanently off the streets less than a month after MJK's murder, never to return again and to die less than one year later. Also, the masturbation observed of Aaron was not documented of someone like David Cohen (although it doesn't mean Cohen couldn't have engaged in it and been observed - it may just never been recorded as anything significant other than the "normal" behavior of a confined asylum male inmate.)

Question: Could there be more to Martin Fido's "Confusion Hypothesis" than meets the eye? In other words, could there have been some confusion between two police forces as to the identity of the Kosminski suspect, in that the "Cohen" suspect was actually a "Kosminski" by original (European) name? This is something I'm not sure if Fido considered, but it would make the confusion hypothesis much more tenable in my opinion. In other words (Aaron) David Cohen's Polish name could have been "Kosminski." Later there was a mixing of facts between the hairdresser, Aaron and the tailer, David because both shared the same name, age and general behavioral characteristics.


Nah!!!

Never mind.

[Jonathan H]

To Scott Nelson

Much of what you write makes ense, and you are spot on about the Swanson conundrum.

It's all a minor sideshow, anyhow, because Macnaghten, a much better cop than Anderson, rejected the Polish suspect as nothing, nothing at all.

I'll ask you directly;

Why do you think Anderson did not mention in public--as Swanson seemingly did--that the Ripper was long deceased?

[Fisherman]

My previous comments was not sarcasm, they were comments.

These, however, are. Thanks for the lecture, truly appreciated

Monty

Thatīs just fine, Monty.

You erroneously and jestingly point me out as having gotten things wrong.

When I point it out, you claim that I have wronged you.

And when I suggest that we lay it behind us, you think the best thing to do is to go on with mockeries and sarcasms.

Thanks for the exchange.

Fisherman

[Monty]

Yes, Neil. But which Kosminski? A hairdresser, or a bootmaker, tailor, or someone else? If only Swanson hadn't written that he died soon after confinement to the asylum, and it was also found that he had said to a newspaper years earlier that the murders were the work of a man who was by then (1895) dead - one year after Macnaghten's memo on Kosminski and the other suspects, giving scant details about them, had been written -- suggesting that Swanson was aware of, and likely referring to, Kosminski. The hairdresser Aaron Kosminski would then not seem to fit Anderson's suspect like a tailored glove. Clearly Swanson was referring to a Kosminski who he believed was dead by 1895, and not someone else. And Arthur Anderson stating that his father believed the Ripper was someone who was dead (Anderson dying in 1918, Aaron Kosminski in 1919). So there's arguably three bits of historical data on the suspect's premature death that run contrary to the hairdresser, Aaron's candidacy. But this is pretty crappy historical data, but it's mostly we got to go on at the present.

The Sims 1907 piece that says the Polish Jew suspect (presumably the hairdresser, Aaron) was at liberty for a considerable time after the murders (assuming MJK was the last). This would eliminate someone like David Cohen, who was not at liberty for a considerable time after the murders, but instead was taken permanently off the streets less than a month after MJK's murder, never to return again and to die less than one year later. Also, the masturbation observed of Aaron was not documented of someone like David Cohen (although it doesn't mean Cohen couldn't have engaged in it and been observed - it may just never been recorded as anything significant other than the "normal" behavior of a confined asylum male inmate.)

Question: Could there be more to Martin Fido's "Confusion Hypothesis" than meets the eye? In other words, could there have been some confusion between two police forces as to the identity of the Kosminski suspect, in that the "Cohen" suspect was actually a "Kosminski" by original (European) name? This is something I'm not sure if Fido considered, but it would make the confusion hypothesis much more tenable in my opinion. In other words (Aaron) David Cohen's Polish name could have been "Kosminski." Later there was a mixing of facts between the hairdresser, Aaron and the tailer, David because both shared the same name, age and general behavioral characteristics.


Nah!!!

Never mind.

Having been exposed to Swansons involvement in many matters, both police and non police related, I see a thorough, meticulous man, and due to that nature, it seems he was chosen, quite often, to conduct inquiries and reports into internal matters concerning procedure. In other words, for me, Swanson rarely made errors.

However, he also comes across as a savvy operator, and to reach the heights he did, he knew how to work the system, to misinform when required. Anderson likewise, as a barrister, would know how to roll, however he made, in my opinion, and error in public by boasting. A telling aspect for me is that Swansons notes were never intended for public review, there is no motive for gain. Also his 95 comments about the killer being dead shows a man with his finger on the pulse.

Too many people assume that Swanson (due to Andersons ill chosen reference) is citing THE prime suspect, instead of A prime suspect. He does not. It is clear Kosminski is a player, and a significant one (that's not to say he was Jack mind), the interesting question is which Kosminski is he?

Yes, I agree, Mr Fido seems to have been so close, yet so far. Not sure about the police being confused as to who he was, more to do with the why? I see no reason for the I.D , as a crime had not been committed. If the suspect was insane, no parade would have been officially permitted (see Isenschmid) by a doctor. Therefore the parade could only occur with either the suspects consent, or behind the backs of the medical men. The legal ramifications would have been explosive if exposed. So it makes sound sense to keep the whole process under wraps, whilst hopefully seeking a positive identification more for reassurance than justice.

Of course, such an event could not be conducted by itself, a number of persons had to be involved, and its surprising we have not heard more from anyone else. Either they chose their confidants wisely, or the event is a myth...but that brings us back round to Swanson and my opening paragraph.

Monty

[Monty]

Thatīs just fine, Monty.

You erroneously and jestingly point me out as having gotten things wrong.

When I point it out, you claim that I have wronged you.

And when I suggest that we lay it behind us, you think the best thing to do is to go on with mockeries and sarcasms.

Thanks for the exchange.

Fisherman

You still waffling on?

To be clear, I've made no error. You think I have.

Also, I was not teasing nor jesting in that post. You think I was.

The bottom line is you got personal due to your assumptions. And THAT is where the error lays.

Monty

[Barnaby]

I voted no because I've never been swayed by his being named as a contemporaneous suspect. I don't think it was a "hey, let's blame a Jew" anti-Semitic thing going on; rather I wonder if his identification was an early example of profiling. The police realize that the killer is local and that the area is dense in Jewish people. And that there is crazy Jewish masturbator who was recently caught. Seems like he is as good of a suspect as any given the lack of evidence. Maybe then there is even an eyewitness ID. Who knows how this was conducted and - depending on the methodology - this could be quite worthless.

[Fisherman]

To be clear, I've made no error. You think I have.

Monty

Are you still waffling?

No, Monty, I donīt THINK you made an error - I KNOW you did. You exemplified with Dahmer and Shawcross when I asked for examples of people that frequently masturbated in public. Error.

Thatīs it and thatīs all and thatīs where I leave you to your waffling.

Fisherman

[Monty]

Are you still waffling?

No, Monty, I donīt THINK you made an error - I KNOW you did. You exemplified with Dahmer and Shawcross when I asked for examples of people that frequently masturbated in public. Error.

Thatīs it and thatīs all and thatīs where I leave you to your waffling.

Fisherman

No, you asked for a serial killer. Error.

Two, and now around four, have been provided.

However, its moot, it has no relation to your personal insult.

Monty

[Fisherman]

Tim Krajcir liked to masturbate in public. He was busted doing that in a Walmart parking lot. He also liked to kill women, and did that at least nine times.

JM

But masturbating once in Wal-Mart does not amount to frequent masturbation in public, does it?
Krajcir masturbated before his victims before he killed them - that is not masturbation in public.
He peeped into peopleīs homes, while masturbating - thatīs not what I would call masturbating in public.

Maybe there IS a serialist who DID masturbate frequently in public, I donīt know. But what I mean with masturbation in public, is masturbating out on the streets with people around, in malls with people around, on beaches with people around.

Every year, people are sent down for this type of offense - it is a common thing, unsavoury though it is. We can read about it in the papers every now and then.
But are these people potential serialists, or are they something else? I would suggest that they are seeking for an outlet for dammed-up sexuality, and once theyīve had that outlet, they donīt go on to killing people.

And serial killers are looking for an outlet for their dammed-up feelings, and once they have had that outlet, they donīt go on to masturbate in public.

It is not an unthinkable combination if a serialist is killing for some other gratification than sex - in such a case, I could imagine a perpetrator that killed for a sense of power or something such, and then he would perhaps get a sexual kick out of masturbating in public, so he could do that too.

But in such a case, it would be unrelated things.

Of course, we may perhaps imagine an oversexed serialist who both liked to masturbate frequently in public AND to kill people for a sexually related urge. But do we really have examples of it?

Maybe Krajcir is as close as we will get. With men like for example Ridgway and Bobby Joe Long, both much oversexed, there are no examples of them being caught masturbating.

I think the two phenomenons are to a very high degree mututally exclusive, but I am willing to have my mind changed if the examples are there.

The best,
Fisherman

[GUT]

Maybe there IS a serialist who DID masturbate frequently in public, I donīt know. But what I mean with masturbation in public, is masturbating out on the streets with people around, in malls with people around, on beaches with people around.

And the relevance would be ...?

[Fisherman]

My original question:

Can you think of one serial killer that frequently masturbated in public? I canīt.

Your original answer:

Dahmer, Shawcross...apologies, you said one.

Now stop wasting valuable time, please.

The best,
Fisherman