Kosminski and Victim DNA Match on Shawl

[Monty]

It is also a known fact that additional officers were used at night during the murder spree. So do you have any proof that Simpson was only used in N division, and not elsewhere as one of these addition officers on night patrol? Because unless you have evidence that he was not, then suggesting he couldn't have been there is speculation on YOUR part.

That is also incorrect. Men were drafted in on temporary transfer to H division, not used ad hoc to cover night beats. All transfers to another divison were listed in Police Orders, and issued to all stations on a daily basis. Therefore Simpsons transfer to H division would be noted in these.

I have searched through my copy of the 1888 Police Orders, and also looked through Simon Woods list of police personnel for 1888, and guess what......no Simpson. So yeah....Ive proof.

I find it humourous that you state it is speculation on MY part, as Ive conducted my research amongst the records and found nothing under Simpsons name so far, yet you are willing to talk the word of an author who, in turn, takes family hearsay as evidence.

The evidence leans away from the families story. That aspect is dubious.

Monty

[Poch]

That is also incorrect. Men were drafted in on temporary transfer to H division, not used ad hoc to cover night beats. All transfers to another divison were listed in Police Orders, and issued to all stations on a daily basis. Therefore Simpsons transfer to H division would be noted in these.

I have searched through my copy of the 1888 Police Orders, and also looked through Simon Woods list of police personnel for 1888, and guess what......no Simpson. So yeah....Ive proof.

I find it humourous that you state it is speculation on MY part, as Ive conducted my research amongst the records and found nothing under Simpsons name so far, yet you are willing to talk the word of an author who, in turn, takes family hearsay as evidence.

The evidence leans away from the families story. That aspect is dubious.

Monty

Oh, is this what Phil mentioned earlier? This is by far the most interesting thing in the thread in terms of blowing this book out the water imo, rather than all the 'table runner lol' comments. Edwards really should have done research into Amos and if he did, why isn't it in the book? If it's because he found no record then well.. poor show Edwards.

[Monty]

Oh, is this what Phil mentioned earlier? This is by far the most interesting thing in the thread in terms of blowing this book out the water imo, rather than all the 'table runner lol' comments. Edwards really should have done research into Amos and if he did, why isn't it in the book? If it's because he found no record then well.. poor show Edwards.

Research is pending, as these orders we re released on a daily basis, sometimes up to 4 times a day. So as you can image, it will take a little while.

Its all in my book

Monty
: )

[Simon Wood]

Hi Pontius2000,

One of the skills a detective or interrogator develops over the years is the ability to recognize the moment when they are being spun a yarn.

This is one of those moments.

Regards,

Simon

[MrBarnett]

Well here we go hold on to your hat could it be that this shawl story is wait for it shock horror drum roll dramatic music not true Amos never took the shawl home .on a lighter note wasn't there an Amos who was the barman at the woolpack in the series emmerdale farm about 20 years ago that was when the series was about agriculture and not sex like it is now.

Aye, lad, there were. His partner was a Mr Wilkes. And the local poacher was Seth Armstong, tha knows.

On a more serious note, so where did old granny Simpson get her blood and semen stained piece of cloth from?

MrB

[Poch]

Research is pending, as these orders we re released on a daily basis, sometimes up to 4 times a day. So as you can image, it will take a little while.

Its all in my book

Monty
: )

Sounds gruelling, good luck with it. I'll no doubt read it!

[pinkmoon]

Aye, lad, there were. His partner was a Mr Wilkes. And the local poacher was Seth Armstong, tha knows.

On a more serious note, so where did old granny Simpson get her blood and semen stained piece of cloth from?

MrB

It's obvious it's case solved Mrs Simpson was jack the ripper it all fits.p.s what happend to Seth.

[Pontius2000]

That is also incorrect. Men were drafted in on temporary transfer to H division, not used ad hoc to cover night beats. All transfers to another divison were listed in Police Orders, and issued to all stations on a daily basis. Therefore Simpsons transfer to H division would be noted in these.

I have searched through my copy of the 1888 Police Orders, and also looked through Simon Woods list of police personnel for 1888, and guess what......no Simpson. So yeah....Ive proof.

I find it humourous that you state it is speculation on MY part, as Ive conducted my research amongst the records and found nothing under Simpsons name so far, yet you are willing to talk the word of an author who, in turn, takes family hearsay as evidence.

The evidence leans away from the families story. That aspect is dubious.

Monty

This is interesting, considering in your very next post #1293, you state research is pending and may take awhile. You have proof, or you don't.

And you are absolutely incorrect that I'm taking the word of the author. I haven't said or implied ANYWHERE that I believe the author or his shawl story. What I've said repeatedly is that it is something that deserves more research and should not be automatically dismissed out of hand without more research.

[Pontius2000]

Hi Pontius2000,

One of the skills a detective or interrogator develops over the years is the ability to recognize the moment when they are being spun a yarn.

This is one of those moments.

Regards,

Simon

Hi. I agree with that to an extent. There is not however any investigations class anywhere that says to jump to a conclusion from the outset based on a preconceived pet theory or bias. Every investigation class I've ever had says follow every single lead to it's end, no matter how ridiculous the lead may seem.

[MrBarnett]

It's obvious it's case solved Mrs Simpson was jack the ripper it all fits.p.s what happend to Seth.

Mauled by a rabid badger or married Mr Wilkes and moved to Spitalfields to open an art gallery. Something along those lines.

Went past the JTR shop this afternoon. It was shut again. I suppose Russell was at the Beeb filming a slot on Newsnight. I'm getting pretty desperate in the yo-yo department. My old one is a disgrace.

MrB

[Garry Wroe]

no one suggests the shawl belonged to Eddowes, it's assumed it belonged to JtR.

Ah, I'd forgotten about that little gem. Yes, the killer left the shawl at the crime scene, presumably as a straight swap for the apron remnant, and Amos managed to have it away en route to the mortuary.

I thought the Diary was bad, but this takes us to a whole new level of desperation.

The only thing missing from this fairytale is the magic beans.

[pinkmoon]

Mauled by a rabid badger or married Mr Wilkes and moved to Spitalfields to open an art gallery. Something along those lines.

Went past the JTR shop this afternoon. It was shut again. I suppose Russell was at the Beeb filming a slot on Newsnight. I'm getting pretty desperate in the yo-yo department. My old one is a disgrace.

MrB

This whole thing has dissolved into a farce ...let's see we need d.n.a sorting we have violent crime we have masturbation we have confused people there is only one way to sort this daytime tv JEREMY KYLE.Do you think he would have us all on I'm fully toilet trained so I shouldn't be a problem.

[Simon Wood]

Hi Pontius2000,

Pursue every single lead to its end, no matter how ridiculous.

That's exactly what the LVP cops did with "Dear Boss," and all they achieved in their haste to take it seriously was the creation of the biggest mass panic the world had ever known.

Cautious minds should have prevailed.

Regards,

Simon

[pinkmoon]

Ah, I'd forgotten about that little gem. Yes, the killer left the shawl at the crime scene, presumably as a straight swap for the apron remnant, and Amos managed to have it away en route to the mortuary.

I thought the Diary was bad, but this takes us to a whole new level of desperation.

The only thing missing from this fairytale is the magic beans.

I would like you input on my latest thread in pub talk

[Stewart P Evans]

Do you not realise...?

Hi. I agree with that to an extent. There is not however any investigations class anywhere that says to jump to a conclusion from the outset based on a preconceived pet theory or bias. Every investigation class I've ever had says follow every single lead to it's end, no matter how ridiculous the lead may seem.

Do you not realize that this is no new debate.

The shawl has been debated many times over the years and it was going on at length back in 2006. No one has 'jumped to a conclusion', they reached their conclusions on this nonsense years ago - only to see it re-cycled now. Check out the Parlours' 1997 book and you will see most of Edwards' claims re- Simpson being made there. He has used the same material and that was twenty years ago!

The only 'new' aspect appears to be 'new' DNA methodology which has, as we have seen, been seriously questioned already.