Kosminski and Victim DNA Match on Shawl

[Jeff Leahy]

Hi Jeff,

Regarding The Blessed Sir Robert Anderson I have read Martin Fido. I have read Paul Begg. I have read Martin Fido extolling Paul Begg, and I have read Paul Begg extolling Martin Fido. And I have also read the newly-anointed Donald Swanson and his holy scripture.

Frankly, between all of them, it's bullshit.

Regards,

Simon

Yeah but the DNA evidence says you are talking BUL*****

Does it not?

Jeff

[Jeff Leahy]

Actually, science has shown that there are major differences in the brains of sociopaths and psychopaths.

This is a good overview article on why the distinction is important:

http://www.psychologytoday.com/files/attachments/112693/psychopathy-versus-sociopathy.pdf

Quoting from the abstract:
The terms psychopath and sociopath are often used interchangeably, but there appears to be some hesitance by researchers in the many disciplines comprising criminology to continue this trend. The problem seems to be that as research has advanced in studies of psychopathy, which is the more common of the two terms, psychopathy now commands a much more specific definition, and this is what alienates it from its estranged cousin, sociopathy.

Its a field that changes almost daily and we know so little about

Many thanks for the current link which I shall read with interest

Yours Jeff

[christoper]

Its a field that changes almost daily and we know so little about

Many thanks for the current link which I shall read with interest

Yours Jeff

Thanks. Neurobiology is a bit out of my expertise--but I find the things they are learning fascinating.

BTW--my brother is a sociopath (and a successful lawyer), my mother is also a sociopath--and so was her mother. So I have experienced the "successful" sociopath the hard way....you are right on that score.

[SirJohnFalstaff]

sociopath vs psychopath

As far as I am aware sociopathy and psychopathy mean the same thing. Incidentally, it is possible for people to be both psychopaths and psychotic/schizophrenic. One study I read indicated that underlying psychopathic traits were the main indicator of violence among people with schizophrenia. Which might well be the case with Kozminski, who was both schizophrenic and also had a "great hatred of women."

RH

The difference could be subtle, and debatable. This is from psychologytoday.com
(they do say that even in the profession, a lot of people use both terms interchangeably)

Sociopaths tend to be nervous and easily agitated. They are volatile and prone to emotional outbursts, including fits of rage. They are likely to be uneducated and live on the fringes of society, unable to hold down a steady job or stay in one place for very long. It is difficult but not impossible for sociopaths to form attachments with others. Many sociopaths are able to form an attachment to a particular individual or group, although they have no regard for society in general or its rules. In the eyes of others, sociopaths will appear to be very disturbed. Any crimes committed by a sociopath, including murder, will tend to be haphazard and spontaneous rather than planned.

Psychopaths, on the other hand, are unable to form emotional attachments or feel real empathy with others, although they often have disarming or even charming personalities. Psychopaths are very manipulative and can easily gain people’s trust. They learn to mimic emotions, despite their inability to actually feel them, and will appear normal to unsuspecting people. Psychopaths are often well educated and hold steady jobs. Some are so good at manipulation and mimicry that they have families and other long-term relationships without those around them ever suspecting their true nature. When committing crimes, psychopaths carefully plan out every detail in advance and often have contingency plans in place. Unlike their sociopathic counterparts, psychopathic criminals are cool, calm, and meticulous.

Edit: sorry for the redundancy. Someone just said the exact same thing a couple of posts higher.

[Tom_Wescott]

Hi Jeff,

Regarding The Blessed Sir Robert Anderson I have read Martin Fido. I have read Paul Begg. I have read Martin Fido extolling Paul Begg, and I have read Paul Begg extolling Martin Fido. And I have also read the newly-anointed Donald Swanson and his holy scripture.

Frankly, between all of them, it's bullshit.

Regards,

Simon

Writing like this is why your book should be on every Must Read list.

Yours truly,

Tom Wescott

[Trevor Marriott]

Yeah but the DNA evidence says you are talking BUL*****

Does it not?

Jeff

Jeff
Like so many other aspects of this case you and others cleary cant grasp this DNA thing.

What is on the shawl is secondary DNA. By reason of that those same secondary profiles could match 400.000 other people and they wouldn't have to all be connected by family ties.

It is always going to stay secondary there is not enough to formulate a full DNA profile. Even if they dug up Kosminski and obtained a full profile from his body it would not change the secondary. It would tell us what we already know and no more.

So lets stop this frenzy that has gripped ripperology this week and be realistic and conclude that in addition to the above

The shawl is floored
Amos Simpsons story is flawed

And most importantly Aaron Kosminski as a ripper suspect is flawed for a multitude of reasons. Its a shame you and the others cant see the flaws or perhaps you can and choose not to talk about them. Because its noticeable that when anyone posts anything which highlights these flaws and why he shouldn't be regarded as a suspect these posts fall on deaf ears

[Monty]

Cannot wait for the X rated version.

Monty

[AdamNeilWood]

Writing like this is why your book should be on every Must Read list.

Yours truly,

Tom Wescott

...and that's just the introduction.

Adam

[lynn cates]

change

Hello Christopher. Thanks.

That was derived from my old social science text. I began wishing to be a psychologist. Glad I pulled out and pursued something real.

Cheers.
LC

[lynn cates]

haters

Hello Outlaw.

"James K Stephen had a pathological hatred of women too as I recall."

As does ALL married men. (heh-heh)

Cheers.
LC

[lynn cates]

good job

Hello Jeff. Thanks.

Little to disagree with in your discussion of sociopathy. So I'll let it bide.

Cheers.
LC

[Wickerman]

What if it was folded and wrapped up in newspaper , and carried as a package ?

moonbegger ..

In that case there wouldn't be any blood on it.

[Chris]

It is always going to stay secondary there is not enough to formulate a full DNA profile. Even if they dug up Kosminski and obtained a full profile from his body it would not change the secondary. It would tell us what we already know and no more.

If by "secondary" you mean "mitochondrial", I've already told you that Dr Louhelainen indicated in his interview with the BBC yesterday that he analysed nuclear DNA as well as mitochondrial DNA.

You can download the podcast here, unless you're absolutely determined not to acquaint yourself with any of the relevant facts:

http://www.bbc.co.uk/podcasts/series/inscience

[lynn cates]

reply

Hello (again) Jeff. Thanks.

"Or was dragged into the yard along the damp cobbles?"

Dress showed no sign of dragging nor muddy--except on side.

"I don't have an 8 foot and 2 foot silk piece of material to hand. But It should fold and twist be very light and very strong."

Maybe you can find a stage prop?

"Conclusion? Well Jack changed his MO considerably from one victim to the next as serial killers often do. Claiming they were killed by different people is simply muddled thinking not understanding the rarity of such killers."

Change of MO or signature?

"No I'd presume he had it already twisted and waiting to do the job… But weather he took it dropped it or left it as a clue I have know idea…We only know it appears to have Eddows blood on it."

Would not Kate have been suspicious?

"None of which makes much sense, which is why where trying to figure out what it all means."

I'll say.

Cheers.
LC

[christoper]

Hello Christopher. Thanks.

That was derived from my old social science text. I began wishing to be a psychologist. Glad I pulled out and pursued something real.

Cheers.
LC

no worries--I am not a psych expert--nor do I claim to be. As a scientist, I try to keep abreast of what is happening in other areas of science--and I have found some of this very fascinating.

It raises a lot of questions--for example--if we could screen children for the changes that occur as sociopathy develops and we see that a child's brain development is going wrong--is there justification to remove them from the parental home?