Kosminski and Victim DNA Match on Shawl

[Observer]

Ok, so we almost agree,

But my original point was that it could only prove Kosminski killed Eddowes, it couldnt prove he killed anyone else...however likely.

Regards.

Hi, almost is not enough. I believe you're looking down the wrong end of your spyglass, spyglass. Kosminki's a shoe-in if it can be proved he murdered Eddowes. Do you not see that? Ok, we establish that it's beyond doubt Kosminski murdered Eddowes. Do we then go looking for other suspects for the other victims in the series?

Regards

Observer

[lynn cates]

How?

Hello Mr. B.

"I suppose it could have been found anywhere on the night of Eddowes's murder and been connected to that event."

How would they have connected it?

Cheers.
LC

[Henry Flower]

Hello Mr. B.

"I suppose it could have been found anywhere on the night of Eddowes's murder and been connected to that event."

How would they have connected it?

Cheers.
LC

DNA!!!!!

[ajcol]

Precise mortuary location.

Talking of the mortuary inventory: can someone tell me precisely where Golden lane mortuary was? Was it located on Golden Lane near the current Barbican complex?

Hi all,
I can remember a while ago recording a documentary from one of the Sky channels, where the mortuary attendant was proposed as a probable JtR - part of the programme dealt with locating the precise site of the long gone mortuary by comparing old and new street maps etc.
I'm currently at work but I'll have a look for it when I get home, although I'm sure most of you other posters here will have more definitive information about it than I.
Alan

[wolfie1]

Hello Trevor.

"What everyone is missing is that Aaron Kosminski in any event may not be the Kosminski mentioned in the contentious MM and the SM. His antecedents simply do not fit.

But of course those proponents of Kosminski will say the police in question got their facts mixed up. Talk about changing the goalposts.

Now we have got back to JTR killing all the victims which is clear that he didn't, and Aaron Kosminski being Jack the Ripper."

But would a hawker of a cheap crime novel know that? (heh-

Cheers

LC

Lyn, what do you mean, that Aaron may not be the Kosminski mentioned....

Cheers

[Jeff Leahy]

Hello Jeff.

No. She died in the yard.

Agreed. She probably died some time after her throat was cut. What we don't know is if she had become unconscious sometime before hand, possibly regain consciousness of moments.

"Could the Shawl actually be the murder weapon?"

Not physically possible.

Why not? Have you tested it. Surely a folded piece e of silk material would make an ideal garrotte leaving few marks.

"Would a strip of material from his homeland have a specific connect in Aaron's mind to his Mother?"

Here's a thought experiment for you. If Aaron had carried such a cloth about--and to each murder--surely at least one other person would have noticed and remarked the fact?

Cheers.
LC

I don't see why. Current claims seem to be it would fit easily into a pocket. And it seems possible Eddows was also attacked from behind and then we have Rose Mylett..

Using a ligature much like Jack the Stripper seems a possibility. Didn't Patricia Cornwall also consider this MO?

Yours Jeff

[lynn cates]

dismissal

Hello Henry. Thanks.

"Perhaps reputable researchers become reputable researchers by being willing to give a second thought to things that others ignore or dismiss?"

Perhaps. But unless and until someone can give an at least plausible explanation for the Simpson possession of the shawl, it is required, epistemically, to dismiss this.

And, currently, we have:

1. Kate owning the shawl.

2. Aaron owning the shawl but taking it from Mitre with him.

3. Aaron owning the shawl and leaving it at Mitre.

#1 is altogether ruled out by the inventory. And the skirt conflation theory is entirely inadequate to rescue it.

#2 contradicts Simpson's story about permission from superiors. It also assumes one could just look at it and say, "Well now, that must have been Kate's!" (vide the Drage knife and Liz)

#3 vide under #1.

Cheers.
LC

[Robert]

I must say, if Aaron jerked off into the cloth then he'd found a new way of doing a runner.

I have a question - one that I dare say has been already answered, but this thread is as long as 'War and Peace' only without the peace bit :

Amos is described as an Acting Sergeant. I'm assuming this means something like a sergeant fulfilling the functions of the real sergeant while he's away, or a probationary sergeant, or something like that. Amos was a constable in 1891. My question is, do we know that Amos was an Acting Sgt in 1888?

[robhouse]

Hello Henry. Thanks.

"Perhaps reputable researchers become reputable researchers by being willing to give a second thought to things that others ignore or dismiss?"

Perhaps. But unless and until someone can give an at least plausible explanation for the Simpson possession of the shawl, it is required, epistemically, to dismiss this.

And, currently, we have:

1. Kate owning the shawl.

2. Aaron owning the shawl but taking it from Mitre with him.

3. Aaron owning the shawl and leaving it at Mitre.

#1 is altogether ruled out by the inventory. And the skirt conflation theory is entirely inadequate to rescue it.

#2 contradicts Simpson's story about permission from superiors. It also assumes one could just look at it and say, "Well now, that must have been Kate's!" (vide the Drage knife and Liz)

#3 vide under #1.

Cheers.
LC

And 4. Kate owning the shawl and Aaron taking it away from Mitre Square with him.

RH

[Sally]

Ok, we establish that it's beyond doubt Kosminski murdered Eddowes. Do we then go looking for other suspects for the other victims in the series?

Dr Louhelainen has said that he would be interested in testing for DNA from other victims if the funding was there - I guess any further endeavours from his end will depend on how far funder[s] [presumably Mr Edwards] are prepared to take it.

[lynn cates]

Q & A

Hello Christopher. Thanks.

"1--are you claiming all "sexual" serial killers are sociopaths?

and

2--please explain the difference between sociopathy and psychopathy."

#1. Certainly not. I am merely trying to explicate one cornball theory, sadly much favoured by many ripper students.

#2. The former is merely a modern version of the latter.

Cheers.
LC

[lynn cates]

What's in a name?

Hello Wolfie. Thanks.

It's a VERY old discussion. You recall, Sir MLM NEVER went beyond the cognomen. Anderson NEVER articulated the name; and, Swanson, if indeed he wrote the "marginalia/end notes," never went beyond cognomen.

Cheers.
LC

[robhouse]

I have 2 questions for you:

1--are you claiming all "sexual" serial killers are sociopaths?

and

2--please explain the difference between sociopathy and psychopathy.

Thanks.

As far as I am aware sociopathy and psychopathy mean the same thing. Incidentally, it is possible for people to be both psychopaths and psychotic/schizophrenic. One study I read indicated that underlying psychopathic traits were the main indicator of violence among people with schizophrenia. Which might well be the case with Kozminski, who was both schizophrenic and also had a "great hatred of women."

RH

[MrBarnett]

Hello Mr. B.

"I suppose it could have been found anywhere on the night of Eddowes's murder and been connected to that event."

How would they have connected it?

Cheers.
LC

Well Lynn, if I were a copper running around like a bluebottle looking for the murderer of one or other of the two women murdered that night and I came across a piece of blood soaked material, I would like to think it would occur to me that it might be connected. Same as the apron piece in Goulston piece, if you think about it.

MrB

[lynn cates]

scenes

Hello Jeff. Thanks.

"Agreed. She probably died some time after her throat was cut. What we don't know is if she had become unconscious sometime before hand, possibly regain consciousness of moments."

Then she walked into the yard, turned around 180, then was sliced?

"Why not? Have you tested it. Surely a folded piece of silk material would make an ideal garrotte leaving few marks."

Jeff, it would be altogether unwieldy. But don't take MY word for it. Cut a piece of cloth with similar dimensions. Now get a friend to help. (Be careful!)

See what I mean? And Polly and Annie DID have marks. So IF it were used, clearly it was NOT so with them.

"I don't see why. Current claims seem to be it would fit easily into a pocket."

Take that SAME piece of cloth and try fitting it into your pocket. See what I mean? And are we to assume that Aaron had Kate hold on until he took it from his pocket and unfolded it several times?

Cheers.
LC