Is Kosminski the man really viable?

[miakaal4]

Having read up (some) of the information on Kosminski, I have to admit I find it very difficult to view him as a viable suspect. It seems that most, if not all the evidence against him comes from some comments by senoir detectives which do not quite tally.
The description of the man is one of a lone, mumbling, imbecile who was lucky enough to have close relatives who looked out for him, but who behaved in such strange ways, he caused enough anxiety to have him removed from the streets. His time spent in asylums have no mention of him threatening to rip anyone up, in fact only one violent incident occurs and that is with a chair.
Apart from the story that he threatened a female relative with a knife, (which lets face it could mean anything from a verbal threat to holding the knife under her throat) there is no record of "homicidal mania" or "hatred of women" as Macnaghten asserts in his Memoranda. Then Anderson say's that a "witness" identified (Kosminski) as the murderer, but would not give evidence as the mans' hanging would be on his mind.
He has got to be joking hasn't he? The most reknown killer in history since Caligula is out there on his patch and he lets him off because some toerag doesn't want it on his conscience? I know the Police had him watched but that could be because they knew he was insane and therefore could perhaps be their man.
Or am I missing something?

[lynn cates]

beKos, just beKos

Hello Miakaal. Just to set the record straight, you refer to Aaron Kosminski?

To be fair, neither MacNaughten nor Swanson give his first name. So we cannot be absolutely certain that Aaron is even THEIR Kosminski.

Cheers.
LC

[miakaal4]

Yep that's your man. I know there is confusion around this chap, although I think it may be more about changing his name to something more Anglo that caused the confusion. But I thought there was only one Kos/zminski on record as being in the asylums? Surely that is Aaron??

[Phil H]

So far research has only indicated AARON Kosminski as the likely suspect, miakaal. He fits the bill closely but not precisely.

As with Ostrog and Druitt there seem to have been deliberate or accidental errors in describing Kosminski by Macnaghten, Anderson and Druitt.

But take the following:

* AK is a Polish Jew as specifically stated by Anderson;
* he lived at the heart of the area, residing with his own people;
* he was sent to a workhouse and then incarcerated in a mental institution at about the right time;
* his mental problems seem to fit with some of those described by the police.

Added to that, recent research (current issue of Ripperologist) has placed him potentially close to the Berners St murder (Stride) with good reason to know the area - that murder has sometimes in the past seemed aberrant given that it was on the other side of Whitechapel Rd to the others.

The problems over Aaron Kosminski centre on the fact that Swanson has him dying much earlier than he did (1919), although MM appears to have known he was still alive in the 1890s. There is also an issue about Anderson and Swanson's statement that AK was identified by a witness who refused to testify. The confusion is over the place (why?) the timing and the witness - it all seems contrary to usual police procedure - but then Swanson should have known that backwards!! Also why did City Police watch a Met Police suspect on Met Police territory.

One day some of this may become clearer - there is perhaps an explanation which might clarify what happened. We are for the moment left with enigmas.

Martin Fido who, I think first identified Aaron Kosminski in the Colney Hatch and other records, was puzzled by the information and considered other candidates, a Nathan Kaminski and a David Cohen, and considered a solution in which the police became confused between suspects. But this did not attract much support.

So we await developments.

As with Druitt and Ostrog, AK cannot simply be dismissed from consideration as he is mentioned by senior officials of the day, and AK has perhaps a stronger case against him given that Anderson and Swanson both refer to him with specific detail.

That said, unlike Druitt and Ostrog, AK can be closely tied to the area of the East End in which the murders took place; he was put away as insane; he can potentially be associated with at least one murder scene quite tightly by residence and local knowledge; there is one record of violence against a woman (albeit not severe).

None of this is sufficient to convict him, or even build a case against AK; but it is MORE than can be done for Druitt or Ostrog (named with him) and probably any other serious suspect.

For me he remains a more likely "type" to be Jack than a "toff" like Druitt or an extrovert like Tumblety. But my mind remains open. the latest research is VERY interesting though.

Phil H

[jason_c]

Having read up (some) of the information on Kosminski, I have to admit I find it very difficult to view him as a viable suspect. It seems that most, if not all the evidence against him comes from some comments by senoir detectives which do not quite tally.
The description of the man is one of a lone, mumbling, imbecile who was lucky enough to have close relatives who looked out for him, but who behaved in such strange ways, he caused enough anxiety to have him removed from the streets. His time spent in asylums have no mention of him threatening to rip anyone up, in fact only one violent incident occurs and that is with a chair.
Apart from the story that he threatened a female relative with a knife, (which lets face it could mean anything from a verbal threat to holding the knife under her throat) there is no record of "homicidal mania" or "hatred of women" as Macnaghten asserts in his Memoranda. Then Anderson say's that a "witness" identified (Kosminski) as the murderer, but would not give evidence as the mans' hanging would be on his mind.
He has got to be joking hasn't he? The most reknown killer in history since Caligula is out there on his patch and he lets him off because some toerag doesn't want it on his conscience? I know the Police had him watched but that could be because they knew he was insane and therefore could perhaps be their man.
Or am I missing something?

The first hand accounts we have of him in 1889 do not suggest a mumbling imbecile. In fact they suggest a man who could think on his feet(being less than forthcoming with the PC) and was willing to stand up to authority. Of course none of this makes him a killer.

[lynn cates]

What's in a name?

Hello Miakaal. Thanks.

"But I thought there was only one Kos/zminski on record as being in the asylums?"

Correct.

"Surely that is Aaron??"

Agreed. But is Aaron the chap named by Swanson and Mac? And is ANY Kosminski Sir Robert's low class Polish Jew? Can't be sure.

Cheers.
LC

[miakaal4]

Hi all and thanks.
I have quickly looked at the latest on Kozmi, but had to agree with an opinion that living nearby doesn't prove a thing. One quick, (the quickest) kill ?
That said it does not hurt the case against the man, and I shall keep an eye on future developments. At this time though I just feel he was not violent enough, the two violent outbursts are tame compared to Stride, let alone Eddows. And besides he would have had to kill Stride and then continue on to kill Eddows. Would he have not just turned around and gone home?

[Fleetwood Mac]

Also why did City Police watch a Met Police suspect on Met Police territory.

I was reading Cutbush's Sun articles last night and two things struck me:

1) How similar Cutbush and Kosminski appear to be. Similar habits, and according to the Sun report both attacked a family member with a knife, possibly even same build, height, hair and eye colour.

2) More in tune with this thread, according to The Sun the City Police issued a circular on the man they were looking for post Eddowes murder: 28ish, 5'8, respectable appearance, dark hair, carrying a parcel. In fact, pretty much PC Smith's character. Does this suggest that the City Police and the Met Police suspect was one and the same? Why wouldn't they watch a man whom they believed to be JTR (Met territory or otherwise)?

[DVV]

Problem is that the theory precedes the suspect in the case of Kosminski.
A serious flaw, if you ask me.
Some officials had a gut feeling that the murderer had to be a Jew, and, oh ! here is a mad Polish Jew...

[Fleetwood Mac]

Problem is that the theory precedes the suspect in the case of Kosminski.
A serious flaw, if you ask me.
Some officials had a gut feeling that the murderer had to be a Jew, and, oh ! here is a mad Polish Jew...

I think Anderson started from the position that either he was protected or he lived alone/had premises that he could retire to alone.

So, in October they searched every house in the vicinity, checking out people who lived alone.

They came up with nothing.

And so, he concluded that he was being protected, otherwise someone would have known of his guilt and contacted the police - and that must mean Jews.

And, according to Anderson the diagnosis was proven correct 'on every count'.

So yes, you have a point. He had a preconceived idea of the lifestyle of this person. Could this have helped cement his views on Kosminski as murderer? Absolutely. But then, a successful ID is strong stuff regardless of preconceived ideas.

[Phil H]

miakaal

I have quickly looked at the latest on Kozmi, but had to agree with an opinion that living nearby doesn't prove a thing.

I agree entirely, but at least there is a demonstrable East End connection for Kosminski which does not exist for MJD or ostrog.

In simplistic terms are not opportunity, motive etc usually given as the basis of a case. Well, AK clearly did have "opportunity" in local knowledge, somewhere to go, etc. that is more than we have for any other suspect. If you add that the ID was of Aaron Kosminski (which I recognise is not proven) you begin to see a lot of ticks in boxes.

NOTE please, I am not pushing the candidature of AK as JtR. I am just pointing out why he remains a more viable suspect than many others.

Phil H

[DVV]

Thanks, Fleetwood.
But I'm not aware of any successful ID in the Ripper case. Even not that of Grainger.

[Sally]

It seems to me that:

Kosminski (most likely Aaron on current knowledge) was considered a suspect and possibly the perpetrator in the Ripper case by senior police officials.

Given the connection that Kosminski had with Berner St and envrions, he could have been identified by Schwartz.

Neither of the above necessarily implies guilt.

[Fleetwood Mac]

Thanks, Fleetwood.
But I'm not aware of any successful ID in the Ripper case. Even not that of Grainger.

Well, I think: ''suspect knew he was identified" and "murderer would have hanged" - is certainly egding toward a successful outing.

[Fleetwood Mac]

It seems to me that:

Kosminski (most likely Aaron on current knowledge) was considered a suspect and possibly the perpetrator in the Ripper case by senior police officials.

Given the connection that Kosminski had with Berner St and envrions, he could have been identified by Schwartz.

Neither of the above necessarily implies guilt.

They were absolutely convinced they had their man.

Anderson claimed the diagnosis was proven right on every count.

Swanson's notes make it clear that suspect would have hanged and his name was Kosminski.

Strong stuff. Difficult to see how they could have been any more convinced outside of catching him red handed.