Is Kosminski the man really viable?

[Casebook Wiki Editor]

Schizophrenics have killed others, but their inability to deal with reality causes them to make mistakes which usually lead to their quick arrest. While Kosminski cannot be ruled out as a suspect, taking into account the mental disease that warped his mind and the descriptions of his appearence and mannerisms, he is perhaps the least likely Jack the Ripper ever so named.

I think Cream holds that distinction but if some said Lewis Carroll I wouldn't put up a fight.

Rob House wouldn't disagree with you vis a vis schizophrenics, I suspect. Obviously he can chime in if I am wrong. It's not the schizophrenia but the comorbid psychopathic anti social tendencies as reflected by Macnaghten's statement that he "had a great hatred of women, specially of the prostitute class, & had strong homicidal tendencies." P. 304

I can't do justice to an eighteen page chapter on "Schizophrenia and Violence" but just want to point out he is not "building" his case solely on schizophrenia. The "Instinct" wasn't necessarily commanding Kos to kill along Son of Sam lines. (....if Berkowitz is to be believed....)

[Tom_Wescott]

Revelations on the horizon?

Hello all,

After reading the posts on this thread its clear that some members either have information that the rest of us dont even know exists, or that assumptions of truth and accuracy are being used as bread crumb trails to some kind of revelation.

I keep reading that some 'revelation' is on the horizon. I can only hope this is true, but the tone of these posts are accusatory, as though there would be something bad about more revelations regarding Kozminski coming forth? The funny thing is, these posts are coming from people like Michael, who are barely even able to concede that Kozminski existed, let alone was a viable Ripper suspect. If this is so, then HOW could any 'revelation' be possible? I'm lost.

Point of clarification - you're not suggesting that the 90% are working off a premise of a killer acting with collaborators, are you? (Not that that is a bad notion.....)

I might have exaggerated a little with 90%, and I certainly don't mean to suggest that there's any kind of consensus among Ripperphiles. Some certainly believe there were more than one murder working in tandem, and others believe there were multiple murderers working separately. And no doubt there's other combinations I haven't thought of.

Yours truly,

Tom Wescott

[Dr. John Watson]

Reality Check

The only sources naming Aaron Kosminski as a suspect in the Ripper murders are MacNaughton and Swanson, with Swanson identifying Kosminski as the anonymous "Polish Jew" mentioned by Anderson. MacNaughton was not on the police force during the killings, so everything he wrote is based on hearsay. Anderson and Swanson were actively engaged in finding the Ripper, but their statements regarding Kosminski, written years later, contain significant errors of fact. More importantly, they offer nothing in the way of hard evidence to corroberate their claim and conveniently omit verifiable details. For instance, while Swanson tells of a crucial identification at the "Seaside Home," he gives no date, no reason for the unusual location, and no identification of the witness or any officers who were present during the identification.

If such an identification had occurred and if Kosminski was the suspect, the witness must have been Isreal Schwartz. In Kosminski's condition, had a strange woman accosted him on the street, I can see him grabbing her, pushing her away and fleeing in fear. So Kosminski could have been the man seen by Schwartz. But Schwartz would not have identified Kosminski as the Ripper because he didn't see who pulled Stride into Dutfield's Yard and there cut her throat. Swanson is libeling an innocent man if he's relying on Schwartz. And if not Schwartz, the unnamed witness must be one who saw a man chatting up Eddowes on Duke Street. Forgetting for a moment that no one claims to have had a good look at this suspect's face, and knowing what we do about Kosminski, can you imagine any woman being induced to follow this wretched man into a dark corner of Mitre Square at the height of the Ripper scare?

Regarding Aaron Kosminski, the symptoms documented by his treating physicians are consistent with someone suffering from advanced schizophrenia, most significant being the references to hallucinations and paranoia leading to an unrealistic fear of all others. This disease usually first appears in young adults, and sufferers are far more likely to harm themselves than others. Schizophrenics have killed others, but their inability to deal with reality causes them to make mistakes which usually lead to their quick arrest. While Kosminski cannot be ruled out as a suspect, taking into account the mental disease that warped his mind and the descriptions of his appearence and mannerisms, he is perhaps the least likely Jack the Ripper ever so named.

John

[Casebook Wiki Editor]

And would someone really refuse to testify against a serial killer simply because he was a fellow jew? That alone sounds fishy and antisemitic.

Actually I think one of the many merits of Rob House's book is that he actually puts Anderson's comments into their proper historical context.

Anderson's belief was grounded in reality....East End Jews were reluctant to acknowledge the crimes of other Jews. Rob does get into this in detail in his book.

I tried to tackle some of this in this post at the Forums:

http://jtrforums.com/showpost.php?p=180221&postcount=58

[Casebook Wiki Editor]

Another of the intrepid three, Macnagthen, reduces Kosminski to a poor second or even third in his list of those more likely than Cutbush to be the Ripper. Oh yes, I forgot, MM was a high ranking policeman who's coments are regarded of the same import as Anderson and swanson in Ripperology.

Perhaps that should be revisited.

We know Warren described him as incompetent and tried to block his appointment in 1887. I realize this has been attributed to personal politics between Warren and Monro. Probably was....but still we assume.

I don't see evidence of a distinguished police career on behalf of Macnaghten.

If the Memorandum hadn't come to light we would not even be discussing him with respect to these crimes; even without his memoirs we'd be talking about Anderson.

I'm not trying to enshrine Anderson's thoughts on the Ripper; I place quite a bit of weight on Abberline's and Littlechild's opinions on the matter. But I'm not putting Macnaghten on a pedestal, either.

[Cogidubnus]

Of course it's not an original thought but do we really know that Kosminski is such an unlikely suspect?

Apart from the tantalising account of his arrest for exercising an unmuzzled dog, we really don't know what his day to day behaviour was like. In fact the accounts of the dog case make him seem quite chirpy...He could have been, pre-asylum, quite an outgoing character...

Once he is incarcerated, however, he seems to fold in on himself...almost collapse and hide within himself...I'm no expert but have heard that this is far from unusual...didn't I hear even Sutcliffe withdrew within himself once shut away?

And I'd guess as time went by he'd become institutionalised and shut his real "me" even further away...hence lapses into periods of speaking only in a foreign tongue (perhaps Yiddish?)...

So possibly his post-1891 behaviour is at odds with that shown before?

All the best

Dave

[Richard E. Nixon]

They were absolutely convinced they had their man.

Anderson claimed the diagnosis was proven right on every count.

Swanson's notes make it clear that suspect would have hanged and his name was Kosminski.

Strong stuff. Difficult to see how they could have been any more convinced outside of catching him red handed.

However, none of the other officials agreed. In fact, some were just as convinced it was Druitt or Chapman. And, Kosminski wasn't put away until 1891. And he didn't die until 1919. And would someone really refuse to testify against a serial killer simply because he was a fellow jew? That alone sounds fishy and antisemitic.

My doubts about Kosminski as the killer are mostly behavioral, though. As said before, this killer was able to think on his feet and carry on a conversation. I don't think Kosminski, as described, could do that. He would be seen as a very bizzare character at the least and a probable lunatic. The man we are looking for was able to walk around and blend in. A man ranting to himself as he ate out of the gutter would have raised a red flag.

[Phil Carter]

We live and learn, but not the wiser grow.

Being a mere mathematician, I thought Ø meant something quite different.

Hello Chris,

In Internation language, i.e.flight tickets. when translated...

Æ is written AE
Ø is written OE
Å is written AA

best wishes

Phil

[Chris]

Education time.

The three extra letters are tagged on from the last three letters of the Norwegian alphabet. Æ, Ø and Å.

We live and learn, but not the wiser grow.

Being a mere mathematician, I thought Ø meant something quite different.

[Phil Carter]

This is an idiotic question.

Are you asking me if I have some sort of clue like DNA linking Kozminski to one of the crime scenes? No I do not. If that is your question, the answer is no.

If you think that means "Aaron Kosminski was NOT a murderer" then fine. That makes no sense at all but that's fine. It is in line with the way your analysis works.

You think that despite the fact that the head of Scotland Yard, and the man in charge of the Ripper investigation clearly believed Kozminski was a very serious suspect in the case, we should listen instead to Phil Carter, armchair detective extrordinaire, who clearly knows more about the Ripper murders than they did.

As I said before, my book was an exploration of that assertion. I found that many things support Kozminski as a suspect in the crimes, AND several of the reasons he has been dismissed as a suspect are erroneous.

You dont care about that though. You will keep repeating the same old things.

Good luck to you

RH

No Rob, I asked for direct evidence of Aaron Kosminski being linked to any of the murders. DNA was not in my mind..it is not a ridiculous question.

Had you bothered to read the "inane" list then one of the points was that Aaron Kosminski was never seen nor identified near any murder scene on any night in question. Neither has he been linked to any of the murders in any way shape or form. There is nothing of any mention of Aaron Kosminski in any document, ever, connected to the murders.

If you have evidence of otherwise. Show it.
If you can't.. then Aaron Kosminski's candidacy is on a par with those mentioned before, who also sit in the same carraige to nowhere.

Phil

[Phil Carter]

To be fair, I think Phil does deserve some credit for continuing to add items to his list even after he ran out of letters of the alphabet. Though I must admit I didn't look at more than the first few.

I remember an anecdote about a snippet of overheard conversation between two Oxbridge academics. One was saying to the other "And ninthly ..." With Phil it would be "And twenty-ninthly ..."

Hello Chris,

Education time.

The three extra letters are tagged on from the last three letters of the Norwegian alphabet. Æ, Ø and Å. There are 29 letters in the Norwegian alphabet, and there are more than 5 vowels too, by the way. a,e,i,o,u, y,æ,ø,å. 9 in total.

I happen to be using a keyboard with all the Norwegian letters on it. Strange as I live here...what?

Useful, now and again though. Especially when making good points in greater quantitative numbers.

best wishes

Phil

[robhouse]

To be fair, I think Phil does deserve some credit for continuing to add items to his list even after he ran out of letters of the alphabet. Though I must admit I didn't look at more than the first few.

I remember an anecdote about a snippet of overheard conversation between two Oxbridge academics. One was saying to the other "And ninthly ..." With Phil it would be "And twenty-ninthly ..."

That's a good point. Admittedly, I didn't bother reading his list closely either. I just skimmed it to see if he responded to anything I said. He didn't, so... whatever.

Rob

[robhouse]

Can you or can you not directly connect Aaron Kosminski to any of the murders in Whitechapel 1888? If not.. Kosminski is on a par with Sickert. Or PAV. Or whoever has been dreamt up in this business. It's a simple question. Yes or no.

This is an idiotic question.

Are you asking me if I have some sort of clue like DNA linking Kozminski to one of the crime scenes? No I do not. If that is your question, the answer is no.

If you think that means "Aaron Kosminski was NOT a murderer" then fine. That makes no sense at all but that's fine. It is in line with the way your analysis works.

You think that despite the fact that the head of Scotland Yard, and the man in charge of the Ripper investigation clearly believed Kozminski was a very serious suspect in the case, we should listen instead to Phil Carter, armchair detective extrordinaire, who clearly knows more about the Ripper murders than they did.

As I said before, my book was an exploration of that assertion. I found that many things support Kozminski as a suspect in the crimes, AND several of the reasons he has been dismissed as a suspect are erroneous.

You dont care about that though. You will keep repeating the same old things.

Good luck to you

RH

[Chris]

PS That "inane" list is only half or even a quarter of the things pointing against Aaron Kosminski being a murderer. Ignore it if you wish.

Oops! Make that "And one-hundred-and-sixteenthly ..."

[Chris]

There is no point in my responding to your inane list.

To be fair, I think Phil does deserve some credit for continuing to add items to his list even after he ran out of letters of the alphabet. Though I must admit I didn't look at more than the first few.

I remember an anecdote about a snippet of overheard conversation between two Oxbridge academics. One was saying to the other "And ninthly ..." With Phil it would be "And twenty-ninthly ..."