Did Aaron Kosminski wear a beard?

[Jeff Leahy]

Kosminski appearance?

You should be careful with this one chaps...

It may seem harmless but we all know that Right-wing organizations have twisted Rob Houses projections and theories on Kosminski for anti -semitic purposes.

However as i know that you are all jolly fine people (even the Welsh one) we'll keep this in the family..

What we know from Rob House research is that Kosminski did not come from a poor jewish family. By the standards of the day i think we can safely say wealthy Tailoring family.

Fact: We know aaron Kosminski suffered from Schizophrenia.

Fact: We know that male schitzophenics are often highly, even very high, academic achievers in their early teens. Likely to be loaners or apart from family groups. The first psychotic episodes are likely to take place late teens early twenties (usually about twenty one twenty two) which fits perfectly with what we know about Aaron.

So the Berner Club radical idea would seem to fit..perhaps Aaron was part of a gang? But a political radical might fit.

What would be more useful to know is could Aaron have had a Brown Mostache?

Not did he have a traditional jewish beard.

It is of course possible that Kosminski fitted the Carroty Mostache descriptions by many suspects. Or if grey hunter's book is to be believed perhaps we should take Elizabeth Longs description more seriously: dark complexioned, and wearing a brown dear stalker hat. She thought he was wearing a dark coat, but could not be sure...he was not much taller than Annie Chapman.

It would be useful to know if anyone has traced any descendants of Aaron Kosminski (apart from Mrs Shine) Is this still in hand?

A family similarity would be useful, as it is unlikely photos of Aaron will ever emerge.

Pirate Jack

[Natalie Severn]

Hi Pirate Jack,
I agree we must be careful here to avoid racial stereotyping and I certainly dont wish to be identified with any of those ghastly right wing groups that have stereotyped and attempted to dehumanise the Jewish people by such poisonous propaganda.In fact I see their current despicable behaviour as being similar to that which led to the atrocities of the holocaust.
However,the reason I brought up the subject of Aaron wearing a beard was to do with normal Jewish custom and practice,particularly in 1888,when numbers of synagogues had sprung up in the East End and many Jewish immigrants,both recently arrived and more long term settled, had created communities of cultural identity and religious observance.Amongst the cultural features which distinguished the Jewish social groups from other social groups in the East End were the dress,food and ofcourse ,the great store that was set by education.Aaron Kosminski,though then a relatively recently arrived immigrant from Poland, is recorded as having been able to read and write.He is also recorded as having been buried according to traditional,orthodox Jewish custom ,his funeral being taken care of by relatives who retrieved his body from Leavesdon and passed it to an Aldgate Funeral Service specialising in Jewish Burial. Moreover as Aaron hailed from Poland its likely that this family who took such care over his burial, were like other Jews from Poland -and Lithuania and Russia,and maintained more conservative aspects of their culture than their counterparts from Germany for example.
And all this gives us a few clues as to what Aaron may have looked like in 1888 in terms of male dress code ,which included hair and beard.
Its quite true he may have joined the East End Jewish Radicals of the Berner Street Club and the like,in which case he may have disowned his religion,traditional dress code etc. But there is no record of such interests,which I believe someone like Robert Anderson would have commented on since the members of that organisation were under strict police surveillance.
Best Wishes
Natalie
ps I personally do not believe Aaron Kosminski was in any way connected with the Whitechapel murders----or any other murder or violent act.
N

[robhouse]

I think that this photo might be a better indication of a sort of cross section of typical Jewish immigrants. Most of the men seem to have facial hair of some sort, but some of the beards are short, like the men on the right. I don't know that there is any indication that Aaron would have worn the traditional or orthodox style of dress with long beard.

I am also attaching a photo of an east end jewish tailor shop, and most of the men dont appear to have beards, or have rather short beards (except for maybe one guy). Moustaches, probably... beards, short if any.

I apologize for the small size of the pictures... also, I dont know what year these pictures are from.

Rob H

edit... The Jewish Immigrants photo:
"These refugees, photographed in the port of Liverpool in May 1882, were among the first of the estimated 2 million Jews who left Russia between 1881 and 1914, mostly for the United States. "

The tailors photo is from the Jewish museum, but I don't know the year.

[Dan Norder]

As Rob points out, not all Jewish men wore full beards. Pizer, as a case-related example, was said to have whiskers but a shaved chin.

I should also point out that there were alleged witness statements that featured a beard. The person who thought an illustration of George R. Sims looked like the man acting suspiciously at a coffee stall around the time of the murders and Emily Walter (whose description of a man seen around Hanbury street was distributed by police) are two off the top of my head.

[Natalie Severn]

Thanks Rob and Dan.
Its a pity we have no description of Aaron -his light weight might indicate that he was slightly built-and thats about it!
Natalie

[Jeff Leahy]

Ar ha!

Hi Nat

Obviously I didn't intend to infer that anyone on Casebook would be anti semitic or that the people who run casebook would tolerate this. I know that you are not.

My point was simply that we should be mindful. It is very easy to forget that people out there in web space have other agenda's. I believe this is a sensitive subject. For my part I think Kosminski is the best suspect there is as Jack The Ripper, how ever the fact that he was Jewish is irrelevant, we should even be careful to point out that schizophrenic's are the least likely serial killers. Druit is a far more, statistically likely, suspect. Even Maybrick is statistically more likely!

My point was simply that nothing can really be drawn from Kosminski's ethnicity, as Rob House has so brilliantly pointed out, jewish immigrants came in many variations.

Almost all the descriptions given by witnesses could have been Aaron Kosminski.

Even your assertion that Kosminski was slight build, doesn't really hold water. It only means that Kosminski was slight (skinny) after 1890.

We simply dont know his physical appearance in 1888?

To understand this you need to get inside the mind of Schizophrenia.

The problem is that there are no modern comparisons because todays schizophrenics are treated by modern drugs. (check Sutcliff)

It is quite possible that Aaron Kosminski was thick set (fat), well dressed, from a well off back ground, an intellectual radical, of above average intelligence, a hansom well spoken charming man....at the beginning of 1888??

Once schizophrenia started (this condition is still not understood) psychotic episodes would start at, between 8 and 16 week periods...they would progressively get worse, with rational/lucid gaps in-between.

Sometimes appearing normal, moments of lucidity, even genius, and periods of non reality. Eventually kosminski would have been totally dysfunctional. By this time he would be pretty harmless. Eventually a period called 'Schizophrenic burn out' would make him totally harmless.

So Begg's theories about the Rippers behaviour/actions after commital are far nearer the mark than Fido's dangerous psycho theory.

It is in the early stages of schizophrenia that sufferers are most likely to be dangerous. Most however are never dangerous or only dangerous to themselves.

Yours the Pirate xx

[Natalie Severn]

Hi Pirate,
Thanks for the reply.I know a bit about the illness as my mother was an art therapist who worked for 16 years with people with schizophrenia.I met and worked with them for a brief time too.Burn out would have been most unlikely at 24---it happens gradually after successive episodes of psychosis.Meanwhile certain paranoid schizophrenics can have very dangerous episodes when they have been known to go and kill "under order" from their voices.There is absolutely no hint ,in any available record ,of him being anything but "harmless" and quite passive, from when he was admitted in 1891.
Rob House has indeed done some very impressive work.....but he hasnt presented anything to confirm this suspect as Jack the Ripper.And apart from Anderson and Swanson no other policeman believed like these two that JtR was Kosminski .Macnaghten fired off Druitt first.Abberline dismissed him completely, so did Dew , Major Smith ,Acting City Police Commissioner in 1888, poured scorn on the idea and must have actually known who the City Suspect was, which is of crucial importance to this matter.
Cheers
Natalie

[Jeff Leahy]

PS. My discription of Kosminski as being gregarious before the illness is dis- ingenuous.

From what I can gather many young men seem not to recover from the stresses of adolescence. Wear most young men seem to out grow the teenage angst period. Schizophrenics often sink into an imaginary world that can become very sophisticated...a denial of the unpleasant reality of life they must face. They never really out grow adolescence.

These worlds become totally real and are not so different to the sudo realities described by modern suffers from 'Skunk psychosis' or LSD over dose.

I think it unlikely that Kosminski was EVER the life and sole of the party. However his insanity may not have been apparent,even in early 1888.

[Jeff Leahy]

Sorry reply

Yo Nat

We cross posted. Of course what you say is true. But which other suspect would you pick? Swanson was simply the man who knew the most about the case...he was in-charge..Anderson was almost certainly guided by Swanson..why else would Swanson write the marginalia?

It is of course strange that McNaughten sites Druit before Kosminski...

Why else would the Ripper historian elite be in such disagreement.

However you twist it Kosminski is still the most credible suspect..

And if he was the Ripper understanding Schizophrenia is the only way you will ever understand what happened.

I for one believe that Swanson is Histories most reliable witness.

Yours the Pirate xx

[Jeff Leahy]

Kosminski in prison

PS

I dont quite follow your argument?..if Kosminski was the Ripper and a schizophrenic. Surely we would expect his behavior to be as recorded and as Kosminski behaved. Completely harmless. Burnt out schizophrenic.

Can you name a Schizophrenic serial killer who has been dangerous after imprisonment?

The Pirate

[Natalie Severn]

Hi Pirate,
Well Thomas Cutbush is for me more credible----he was sent to an asylum for the criminally insane,Broadmoor---indicating he was still very dangerous in March 1891-same time as Kosminski more or less.
And then there is Tumblety.
Best Natalie

ps I dont think he could have been burnt out when he was in his mid twenties.It happened mostly around 40 when drugs were not so developed as now.Also paranoid schizophrenics may have psychotic episodes ,but many are no danger to anybody else.
Best Nats

[Jeff Leahy]

???

Thomas Cutbush? a much overlooked suspect...however do his records suggest he was a schizophrenic? I think not.

as for Tumblety perhaps you have been watching to much Vic Reeves?

Do you really think that a Six foot homosexual dressed as Kernel Sanders, a man known for lying and involving himself in intrigue, could have committed the Whitchappel murders? A man even Little Child did not believe to be the Ripper.

You only have to study the Kelly murder scene photos to realize that this was the work of someone suffering terrible mental trauma.

THe Pirate

[Jeff Leahy]

PS You are of course correct. Almost all Schotzophrenics are completely harmless. THe stages of Schitzophrenia vari greatly from individual to individual. If Kosminski was Schizophrenic and the Ripper, he would have been very rare indeed. But not totally unique.Modern Drugs make it difficult to make a comparison with 1888.

Pirate

[Jeff Leahy]

Recovered post

Natalie Severn
10th August 2007, 10:25 PM
Hi Folks,
Interestingly psychopaths do not as a rule commit murder.Another name for the psychopath is "plausible rogue'....typically a con man who leaves behind a trail of chaos.
By contrast the paranoid schizophrenic does "sometimes" commit murder in response to his or her "voices"or "commands".These voices are actually "heard"by the sufferer who will act on them.Kosminski appears to have heard "voices"of some kind from his "Universal Power who knows all things-the refusal to eat normally or wash etc was probably in direct response.Some of his thinking is recorded in his hospital records.
In 1888 there were no medications to stop psychotic episodes as there are today.The person was removed to an asylum where ,in the more advanced ,progressive institutions such as Colney Hatch,streess was kept to a minimum.Even so, patients were often left as human wrecks by the furious onslaught of the illness that eventually "burnt them out".It sounds to me like Aaron Kosminski was already "burnt out" when he arrived at Colney Hatch.
Paranoid schizophrenia is the illness which gives rise, still today, to some of the most gruesome murders we hear about in the press and on TV.
Best
Natalie

.
..And just as a reminder...we dont actually know how long 'Burn Out' takes. As you said yourself. Kosminski was no normal schizophrenic if he was the Ripper...he might have burnt out much quicker than sufferers today...a totally differant curve.

Pirate

[The Good Michael]

Interestingly psychopaths do not as a rule commit murder.

No psychological classification, as a rule, commits murder.

Mike