Jack the Ripper At Last? by Helena Wojtczak

[bigjon]

In Jon's example, I bet people were basing it on his clothing. Which was I think a choice that made him look younger. A hoodie??

No idea if that is how he normally dresses or if he wore it specifically for the "part".

[Robert]

Voice will sometimes unconsciously colour perceptions of age. Also language - if you hear someone say "bro" they're probably not 50.

[Lechmere]

Stephen and I watch old movies a lot and we look at some of the actors and actresses and when we look up their ages we find they were younger than us when they did those movies, but looked ten years older.

You wish

[Ally]

It's interesting regarding age ranges because I do believe that is almost impossible to guess. I know women who are 40 who look like they are 25 and I know women who are 25 who look like they are 40. So many variables.

I do think people age better than they did even 50 years ago though so I am not sure if it would be apt to do old time shots. Stephen and I watch old movies a lot and we look at some of the actors and actresses and when we look up their ages we find they were younger than us when they did those movies, but looked ten years older. Or possibly just more mature, since we are infantile. I don't know. But a 35 year old person from the 50's compared to a 35 year old now is a world of difference.

In Jon's example, I bet people were basing it on his clothing. Which was I think a choice that made him look younger. A hoodie??

[bigjon]

Can I just add to this my results of the demonstration we did at the conference in London last month.

For those unaware, we had two actors have an argument in the street which the conference delegates witnessed. The next day we asked them to complete eyewitness descriptions. Out of 125 attendees, 40 completed eyewitness reports.


The suspect was 30 years old, yet 1/4 of witnesses believed he was aged 18-25.

I used quite age ranges (10 year ranges for over 25's), so it would be interesting to see how many would still have been correct if smaller ranges were given.

http://jlrees.co.uk/#!/jtr-conference-2013/

[Sam Flynn]

Here are the results...

Thanks, Rob. An interesting, and most instructive experiment.

[robhouse]

Incidentally, this goes hand in hand with my other favorite test: "What time is it right now?"

Try guessing (without looking) what time it is right now.

The accuracy depends on how recently you last checked the time, and how good your memory is (among other factors). I just did this, and my guess was off by an hour. So you can see how accurate a witness might be when estimating age, the time of events, etc.

RH

[robhouse]

Here are the results... in general, the results were similar to last time I posted this (See: http://jtrforums.com/showthread.php?t=16150)

Everyone overestimatd the age of man #3, by upwards of almost 20 years. Woman #4 was all over the place, some were quite close, others underestimated her age by 7-8 years, one overestimated by about 30 years. Man #2 was closest overall.

So take into consideration that these photos are actually clearer than most of the looks the witnesses had, and you can study them. The actual witnesses in the Ripper case —most caught a brief fleeting glimpse of a man, some like Long, saw him only from the back, and didn't see the man's face at all. In general, the lighting was dark. And the witnesses gave their estimates of age several days after the fact.

So what conclusions can we draw from this. In short... the estimates of age may have been significantly off target... by significantly, I mean by ten years or more.

RH

[Sam Flynn]

1 - 27

2 - 14

3 - 35

4 - 23

[pinkmoon]

Hi Pinkmoon

Considering you comments, surely, if someone did see the killer and did not report it, then their description would be as worthless as the witnesses who did come forward? Considering of course the poor lighting conditions, and fleeting glimpses, you allude to.

Observer

Evening observer,I'm not talking about a fleeting glimpse I'm saying maybe someone saw our killer at his grisly work or actually disturbed him in the act.

[pinkmoon]

Did I say that? I said it would be difficult to say, precisely, how old someone was at night, by gas light, seen briefly from any distance and one could only guess at someone's age in that situation. Someone of 23 could look older as well as someone described to be around 40 could actually be in his 30's..
Anyone who has died often looks younger than their years because the facial muscles relax. At least the victims were studied and seen in daylight, but as you, yourself, say the ages were still estimated wrongly.
I think it's more important to note that Chapman does not fit with most of the descriptions witness's gave. Of course, there is no certainty that anyone actually saw Jack the Ripper. It's all a matter of opinion, really.

Pinkmoon: I read that your high ranking policeman got his information either from the family or the rumour started because of the timing of his suicide. I can't think why the family would do that, so I think it had more to do with the latter, but as you say it is odd.

Evening Amanda,how can we take any of the sightings seriously taking into count the poor lighting and brief glimpses and yes it was odd for Mr Mac to name druitt it seems a reckless thing to do without any facts and it seems out of character.

[Casebook Wiki Editor]

1) 36
2) 18
3) 44
4) 28

[Varqm]

1) 24-28
2)13-17
3) 36-42
4)52-60

[Amanda Sumner]

I have posted this before, but here is a test for anyone reading this... on the reliability of witness statements and estimating ages. Here are some photos from the City of London Police museum...

If people want to guess the ages of the following people, then afterwards I will post the correct answers.

Rob H

1.25
2.16
3.32
4.18

[Amanda Sumner]

Hi Amanda. That of course open to speculation. How would you react?

Observer

Well, I think I would find it fascinating, certainly interesting but I would not be horrified, I don't think.
As a family member of one of Chapman's victims I feel sorry and have empathy for what the poor girl went through but I accept that is what happened and is part of my family history. If it was ever proved that I was related to JtR I think I would react in the same way, as far as I would not feel responsible for crimes that I had not committed but would accept that that was a very interesting part of my family tree.
At least, that's how I think I would react. How would you?