Chapmans accent

[Abby Normal]

We havent heard much on this suspect lately. Ive always considered him a strong (or one of the least weak)suspects. Sugden, the author of the best ripper book IMHO, thought he was the best and of course the most astute policeman on the case, Abberline, favored him.

My main beef with him though, is several very credible witnesses-Marshall, Mrs Long, schwartz all heard the ripper speak, and none of them say he had an accent. Actually, no one ever said any suspect spoke with an accent.

Clearly, chapman would have spoke with a strong polish accent no? Thoughts? comments?

[The Baron]

Chapman is a strong suspect, I will put him above Bury because he was a serial killer and was there during Tabram and Mckenzie's murders.

The most relevant sightings of the Ripper which we know about in my opinion were that of Schwartz and Lawende, in both cases too little have been heard and those who could have heared anything had also another mother language.


TB

[Abby Normal]

Chapman is a strong suspect, I will put him above Bury because he was a serial killer and was there during Tabram and Mckenzie's murders.

The most relevant sightings of the Ripper which we know about in my opinion were that of Schwartz and Lawende, in both cases too little have been heard and those who could have heared anything had also another mother language.


TB

good points. but wouldnt schwartz have heard an accent in the shouted Lipski?

[c.d.]

good points. but wouldnt schwartz have heard an accent in the shouted Lipski?

From just one word? That seems extremely unlikely. And I am sure that at that point linguistics was not foremost on his mind.

c.d.

[The Baron]

If one also considered Mrs Long and Hutchinson testimonies (personaly I don't think they saw the ripper) then we have:

Mrs Long heard "Will you"

Hutchinson heard "You will be alright for what I have told you"

Both of them thought the man was foreign.

We don't know if they were asked specifically if the man had an accent.


TB

[Abby Normal]

If one also considered Mrs Long and Hutchinson testimonies (personaly I don't think they saw the ripper) then we have:

Mrs Long heard "Will you"

Hutchinson heard "You will be alright for what I have told you"

Both of them thought the man was foreign.

We don't know if they were asked specifically if the man had an accent.


TB

well IMHO Long saw the ripper, and hutch didnt (unless he looked in a mirror lol).
But I think Long would have known he had an accent from "will you". and would have said he had an accent even if not asked directly.
Hutch didnt say he looked foreign, only that he had a jewish appearance.

But I still do think Chapman makes one of the strongest suspects.

[Aethelwulf]

We havent heard much on this suspect lately. Ive always considered him a strong (or one of the least weak)suspects. Sugden, the author of the best ripper book IMHO, thought he was the best and of course the most astute policeman on the case, Abberline, favored him.

My main beef with him though, is several very credible witnesses-Marshall, Mrs Long, schwartz all heard the ripper speak, and none of them say he had an accent. Actually, no one ever said any suspect spoke with an accent.

Clearly, chapman would have spoke with a strong polish accent no? Thoughts? comments?

• Chapman is interesting, but going from sexually motivated murder and mutilation to playing the long game with poison seems a bit of a stretch.
• If we were looking at a series of unexplained slow deaths by poison, Chapman would be the prime suspect. But we're looking for someone with form for something very different.
• Doesn't seem to fit the better descriptions.
• Style and language of GSG makes it certain in my mind it was written by an Englishman, not a foreigner.
• Just because he was serial killer doesn't mean he was the serial killer. Form is far too different.

On the accent, could be that people in the east end were so used to hearing all sorts of accents it didn't register. The only accent I can think of is the man asking after Lusk's address.

If nothing else, add Chapman to Bury, Kelly, Koz, Tumblety, possibly Faigenbaum and Deeming at a stretch, plus Torso killer (if they were by one man and that isn't certain) - just how many creepy, dangerous people were hanging out in the east end in 1888!

[Fleetwood Mac]

Chapman is a strong suspect, I will put him above Bury because he was a serial killer and was there during Tabram and Mckenzie's murders.

The most relevant sightings of the Ripper which we know about in my opinion were that of Schwartz and Lawende, in both cases too little have been heard and those who could have heared anything had also another mother language.


TB

I agree in that he is one of the more interesting suspects.

The problem with witness statements is that we can't say which of the witnesses actually saw the WM.

I'm not convinced with Schwartz.

I think PC Smith, Lawende and Mary Ann Cox are the best bets, although I'm not convinced that Lawende saw Catherine and the WM. In the event one of Mary Ann Cox and Lawende saw the WM, then it follows Chapman is ruled out.

My hunch is that the WM wasn't 'foreign' also.

As for foreign accent, you would think it would have been mentioned and it may have been in a record that didn't survive. It's interesting that at the inquest, nobody seems to have been interested in asking why a witness felt the man was 'foreign'.

[HelenaWojtczak]

In my opinion, he would definitely have had a very strong Polish accent.

I know it's only anecdotal but my father grew up in the same area as Chapman and left Poland at the same age as him - 22. To his dying day, at age 84, despite living in England for 62 years, my father's accent was very pronounced indeed. If he is anything to go by, then imagine what Chapman must have sounded like when he'd only been living in London for a couple of years.

[PRIVATE INVESTIGATOR 1]

May I quote something I wrote almost a year ago on another thread:


Schwarz did not say that the suspect was a foreigner.

He could reasonably have been expected to tell the difference between a native and an immigrant.

There is a difference between the way a British person would have pronounced 'Lipski' and the way a Polish person would have pronounced it - specifically the way in which the two 'i's would have been pronounced.

Being from Eastern Europe himself, Schwarz would have been aware of that.

(# 271, Continuation of “Possibility for the Seaside Home”)


As for Long's foreigner, had he been an immigrant from Germany, Austria, or Russia, it is unlikely that he would have been able to say Will you without giving away the fact that he was a foreigner, as he would not have been able to pronounce the English w.

As the Polish letter ł is pronounced similarly to the English letter w, it is possible that he was Polish, except that not only would his accent surely have given him away, but his pronunciation of the vowel in the word you would have identified him as an immigrant.

[Paddy Goose]

Hello Helena,

In my opinion, he would definitely have had a very strong Polish accent.

I know it's only anecdotal but my father grew up in the same area as Chapman and left Poland at the same age as him - 22. To his dying day, at age 84, despite living in England for 62 years, my father's accent was very pronounced indeed. If he is anything to go by, then imagine what Chapman must have sounded like when he'd only been living in London for a couple of years.

Thank you for your firsthand knowledge which is worth a great deal.

Great to hear from you Helena !

[HelenaWojtczak]

Hello Helena,



Thank you for your firsthand knowledge which is worth a great deal.

Great to hear from you Helena !

That's very kind of you, Paddy, what a lovely welcome back!