Sims Versus Abberline

[HelenaWojtczak]

Hello!

Can anyone direct me to the Sims-Abberline argument about SK?

I've read it and now lost the source.

THANKS!

[Natalie Severn]

Hello!

Can anyone direct me to the Sims-Abberline argument about SK?

I've read it and now lost the source.

THANKS!

try this
home > press reports > dagonet and jack the ripper

[HelenaWojtczak]

try this
home > press reports > dagonet and jack the ripper

Thanks Norma, I have been searching since I posted that and have also found a press report where Sims contradicts Abberline in 1903.

WOW just looked at your link --- wow wow you have saved me a TON of work thank you so much -- have spent hours on here and never come across THAT page before!

[Natalie Severn]

Glad it was of help Helena----good luck with your search.....

[Chris]

And Abberline's side of the argument is here:

http://www.casebook.org/press_reports/pall_mall_gazette/19030324.html

http://www.casebook.org/press_reports/pall_mall_gazette/19030331.html

[HelenaWojtczak]

Thank you so much Chris. I think I already have those, but will click the links and check... best to be double-sure I've seen everything.

[jason_c]

Thanks Norma, I have been searching since I posted that and have also found a press report where Sims contradicts Abberline in 1903.

WOW just looked at your link --- wow wow you have saved me a TON of work thank you so much -- have spent hours on here and never come across THAT page before!

One of the best pages on the entire Casebook site.

[Trevor Marriott]

One of the best pages on the entire Casebook site.

The newspaper interviews Abberline gave clearly show that he was merely "Stabbing in the dark" as far as Chapmans candidacy for thr Ripper was concerned.

Obviously the police who subsequently arrested Chapman had no such suspicions otherwise they would have gone to interview him whilst in prison awaiting execution. There is no record to suggest that was ever done.

Taxi for Chapman ?

Soon have to order a bigger taxi with Tumblety on his way out the door soon to be followed by Kosminski, Druitt and Ostrog.

[HelenaWojtczak]

Soon have to order a bigger taxi with Tumblety on his way out the door soon to be followed by Kosminski, Druitt and Ostrog.

Do you agree with Sims that JtR died in the Thames?

[Trevor Marriott]

Do you agree with Sims that JtR died in the Thames?

Definatley not

[Natalie Severn]

The newspaper interviews Abberline gave clearly show that he was merely "Stabbing in the dark" as far as Chapmans candidacy for thr Ripper was concerned.

Obviously the police who subsequently arrested Chapman had no such suspicions otherwise they would have gone to interview him whilst in prison awaiting execution. There is no record to suggest that was ever done.

Taxi for Chapman ?

Soon have to order a bigger taxi with Tumblety on his way out the door soon to be followed by Kosminski, Druitt and Ostrog.

Now Trevor,you must know that Godley who arrested Chapman and also worked on the Ripper case in 1888 , was reported as being in agreement with Abberline.
Chapman refused to be drawn on any murders .He insisted he was George Chapman born in America and that he knew nothing about 'this other man,Klosowski,' .This was his line throughout and he kept it up when Lucy Baderski/Klosowski, his legal wife, met him during his trial.He said he had never met her and she was flabbergasted . The police got nowhere with Chapman /Klosowski right to the end.

[Trevor Marriott]

Now Trevor,you must know that Godley who arrested Chapman and also worked on the Ripper case in 1888 , was reported as being in agreement with Abberline.
Chapman refused to be drawn on any murders .He insisted he was George Chapman born in America and that he knew nothing about 'this other man,Klosowski,' .This was his line throughout and he kept it up when Lucy Baderski/Klosowski, his legal wife, met him during his trial.He said he had never met her and she was flabbergasted . The police got nowhere with Chapman /Klosowski right to the end.

Personally I dont like the term "reported to be" I notice that Insp Reid who was heavily involved in the Ripper investigation does not concur with Abberline.

Add Abberlines name to the list of "Long after the event attention seekers"along
with Swanson,Anderson,Macnaghten.

There has been to much emphasis put on what these officers said in later years about who if anyone was really suspected. Considering they were all activley involved in the case you would have expected the to have all come up with the same suspect at least.

Officer from the met police have been proved to still be lying thorugh their teeth today Iam sure that that was no different 123 years ago.

Three cheers for Major Henry Smith

[Jonathan H]

What a shallow way of looking at those significant police figures, and a misunderstanding of historical methodology regarding primary sources.

Those police sources are as much the Ripper mystery as the murders, like it or lump it.

Abberline was not claiming to know that Chapman was the Ripper in 1888; he was not redacting his knowledge into his failed investigation. A murderer had been convicted in 1903 and he had a strong theory that this was also the Whitechapel fiend.

Macnaghten, in the only public document on the Ripper under his own name, went against the expected bias of conceding that his preferred suspect, a fellow gentleman, was essentially unknown to police until 'some years after' he had taken his own life.

Swanson made only one public comment on the case, in terms of a chief suspect (1895), and that the man was deceased, an opinion he arguably, if erroneously, stuck to in retirement, but did not make a public, 'atteention-seeking' comment about -- at all.

Anderson was conceited, but not an anti-Semite. He went against his own religious-sectarian bias to accuse, though not by name, a Polish Jew who, if you look at modern profiling, arguably, fits the modern idea of the serial killer to a tee: mad. local and obscure.

[Trevor Marriott]

What a shallow way of looking at those significant police figures, and a misunderstanding of historical methodology regarding primary sources.

Those police sources are as much the Ripper mystery as the murders, like it or lump it.

Abberline was not claiming to know that Chapman was the Ripper in 1888; he was not redacting his knowledge into his failed investigation. A murderer had been convicted in 1903 and he had a strong theory that this was also the Whitechapel fiend.

Macnaghten, in the only public document on the Ripper under his own name, went against the expected bias of conceding that his preferred suspect, a fellow gentleman, was essentially unknown to police until 'some years after' he had taken his own life.

Swanson made only one public comment on the case, in terms of a chief suspect (1895), and that the man was deceased, an opinion he arguably, if erroneously, stuck to in retirement, but did not make a public, 'atteention-seeking' comment about -- at all.

Anderson was conceited, but not an anti-Semite. He went against his own religious-sectarian bias to accuse, though not by name, a Polish Jew who, if you look at modern profiling, arguably, fits the modern idea of the serial killer to a tee: mad. local and obscure.

You are right they only made comments so why are so many people fixated about those comments when it comes to their own choice of individual suspects.

Clearly when they all made those comments they had their own agenda for doing so a bit like "What do dont know make up, bullshit baffles brains" especialy when it cant be proved or disproved then, but now 123 year later we can prove and disprove some of those things. But when we disprove them today some will still not accept the fact that on the face of it all were lying.

[Steven Russell]

If Swanson was lying, he must have been lying to himself as the marginalia seem to be meant for his own use - a clarification and expansion of Anderson's claims.

Best wishes,
Steve.