Lucy Baderska - where was she born?

[HelenaWojtczak]

The 1891 census shows her birthplace as Posen, Germany.

When she married Szymanski in 1903 she said she was from Poland.

The borders of Poland/Germany had not changed between 1891 and 1903 so why did she state she was born in Germany, then 11 years later, state Poland?

Theories welcome!

[Adam Went]

Hi Helena,

I see you've taken quite a keen interest in Klosowski! Welcome.

I think it's pretty well established that Lucy was a Polish woman, and so it may be that if the 1891 census records her birthplace as Germany, it's probably an error on the part of the census, not uncommon in the 1890's and preceding decades.

Or, alternatively, despite the fact that my historical geography skills are rubbish, could it be possible that she was from one of the territories closely linked to both Germany and Poland - say, Silesia for instance? Just thinking out loud.

Cheers,
Adam.

[Chris]

The 1891 census shows her birthplace as Posen, Germany.

When she married Szymanski in 1903 she said she was from Poland.

The borders of Poland/Germany had not changed between 1891 and 1903 so why did she state she was born in Germany, then 11 years later, state Poland?

I'm not an expert in these matters, but from online sources Posen/Poznan was politically part of Prussia at the time, but ethnically most of the population was Polish, which I would guess was the cause of the confusion.

[HelenaWojtczak]

@ ADAM

Thanks for the welcome.

Yes, I am interested because my family is from Poland and another branch of my family came from Poland and settled in Mile End in the 1880s. As part of my degree I studied Charles Booth and the Social Surveys, and my dissertation was on the subject of prostitution in the East End in the late 19th century. I lived in London for 22 years, partly in the East End, and now I live in St Leonards, a mile from Hastings, where I keep myself busy indulging in the study of history.

Under the circumstances, how could I NOT be interested in Klosowski once I discovered he came from Poland and lived in Hastings?

@CHRIS

Indeed. Poland did not exist at that time.

My family are from Lublin. My father was one of four children. The first three were born "in Russia" but my father was born "in Poland". And yet they were all born in the same house!

Reason - my father was the only one born after Poland was re-established as a country in 1918.

On reflection it was a silly question to post. Lucy must have had a burst of Polish pride in 1903.

[Adam Went]

Hi Helena,

Many thanks for the information, you're quite right that it is an interesting connection you have! Especially since Klosowski is still regarded by many - in fact I would say most - as one of the most plausible suspects out of the current field.

I also like Chris's suggestion about Prussia - it's always difficult though when trying to identity lands which no longer exist.

Best of luck with your ongoing research!

Cheers,
Adam.

[HelenaWojtczak]

Thanks Adam for the thumbs up. I appreciate it.

Klosowski is still regarded by many - in fact I would say most - as one of the most plausible suspects out of the current field.

You say that, but there is precious little recent discussion about him on these boards. Just looking down the list of threads, I'm the last person to post on all of them. Very few people have anything to contribute to the threads I've started (up to two weeks ago) or points I've made on older threads. Maybe people are done with Klosowski and so I have missed the boat time-wise? Neal Shelden doesn't seem to be taking part any more. Even Norma is busy with another project.

I must confess that I am disappointed, I really thought the Klosowski threads were going to be more active.

[Adam Went]

Hi Helena,

Well, as much as I hate to say it, if fervent Klosowski discussion is what you're after then you may have missed the train by a few years - there's been a definite trend in recent times of less suspect-based research, which I believe is a good thing. The issue is that most of everything that can be said about Klosowski the suspect has already been said, numerous times - and it's the same for many other suspects. So we search instead for new leads, new suspects, new information - and the older suspects simmer down in the process.

But I wouldn't worry, at some point the discussions will spark up again, it always goes round in cycles like that.

Cheers,
Adam.

[HelenaWojtczak]

Thanks Adam, as you can see I have joined The Other Place.

I'm going to write a book about Klosowski.

[Adam Went]

Would be fantastic addition to the field to have a book about Klosowski the man rather than Klosowski the suspect, Helena - again though, the same could be said of most of the suspects.

Best of luck with it!

Cheers,
Adam.