Can George Chapmam reform himself to being a calculating poisoner seven years later?.

[John G]

Not if he was JtR.

The difficulty is that your expanding the parameters. I mean, I can't see that it would be at all unprecedented for two serial killers, with different MOs and signatures, to have lived in the same district at some time or other, perhaps years apart.

[Batman]

I have thought about this and indeed there actually may be a need to make modifications to the original argument which was, that there are no examples of two serial killers operating in the small same area at the same time.

Chapman likely lived in Whitechapel close to the murders in 1888.

In the 1890s he came back to London after leaving America and for the next decade moves between Bartholomew Square and then Union Street and then Borough High Street.

So all that's really happening here is that the small area needs to expanded to capture those places.

Does the original point still hold? I think it does, it just expands the size of the area we are talking about.

[Mr Stu]

heath wassnt passing through notting hill - he lodged as a tennant in linden gardens in the 1940's - he rented a flat -he lived there.. full stop - it was his locale - and murdered there..fact at the same time christie was..fact...so whilst it may seem unlikely two serial of multiple killers are on the same patch at the same time - it is entirely possible and you CANNOT assume a blokes guilt on the basis of it being in your eyes unlikely. the sutcliiffe shipman comments bear this up too - and are relevent - the area is larger admitted but still bloody close enough. i have considered chapman , but really it doesnt bear much scrutiny..

[Mr Stu]

i can narrow it down a bit more on the serial/mutiple killers if you want .. how about under the same roof..?? brady and hindley? fred and rose west?? the krays? you just cant tell where bad buggers will turn up..its just random...and and less random in those days.

[Mr Stu]

you cant expand areas for your theory to work - you cant do that, if you have to shift the goal posts then ..its time to ditch that one and consider something else.its a dead end..he is a possible in my books - just about possible - though i think its more that its been fed to me by tour guides and a pub. no jack - if he stopped it was
because he was forced to i think.

[Batman]

Let's say we find a dozen or more cases where what you say happens. It is still dwarfed by the cases where it doesn't.

So while nobody has said it impossible, it is highly unlikely.

Heath who murdered two people appears to have been moving around though and killed also far away the next time before being caught. I don't know enough about him but he might not match some criteria for a SK.

At the same time I am surprised there are not more examples, especially in major western cities.

[Mr Stu]

he moved because the search was on for him, waiting for the heat to die down, it is still his locale.

[John G]

There could have been several serial killers active in the East End of London during the period Chapman lived there. For example, in addition to the C5 and Tabram we have a number of other unsolved murders:Millwood, Mylett, Torso Murders, Smith, Haynes, McKenzie, Coles and Austin. The last mentioned victim was killed and mutilated in Miller's Court.

Simply arguing that a serial killer was at loose, that George Chapman was a serial killer, therefore they must be the same person, simply makes no sense. Particularly when you consider that Chapman's personality couldn't be more different to JtR, i.e. a slow poisoner, who was also sadistic. And, in my opinion, he didn't even have the requisite surgical skill or anatomical knowledge to have carried out these crimes.

[Mr Stu]

no no no - mate you cant use that - ofcourse it isnt common or likely but i've proven it can and does happen, not only that, they happen to be notorios cases , i've given you three more cases of horrors ..what are the odds on brady finding hindley, fred west finding rose west..? it happens ..as sure as i'm a niche artist finding another one round the corner and there he is - its totally possible..and we have more places to live - to me - a migrant landing here - well in london - gravitating to the east end, and settling there as many migrants did..makes total sense without him having sod all to do with jack the ripper.

[Mr Stu]

yes john. yes.

[Mr Stu]

right - you are a young chapman, get to london..where do you see your life in the immediate - yep london..where do you start off without alot of bunce - yep - the cheapest bit of london, so you get established there..which happens to be where jtr was , he cant help that but later is an evil bastard himself - doesnt make him one and the same as jtr...you'd be laughed out of court if you made that assumption.

[Mr Stu]

i've already given you four - one i researched for ohh 5 minutes, the rest i just knew...you cant use it to say anything mate, that makes chapman anymore likely than my great grandma of being jtr.

[Batman]

you cant expand areas for your theory to work - you cant do that, if you have to shift the goal posts then ..its time to ditch that one and consider something else.its a dead end..he is a possible in my books - just about possible - though i think its more that its been fed to me by tour guides and a pub. no jack - if he stopped it was
because he was forced to i think.

I think the point is this. Nobody has said its impossible. What is being said though is that its highly unlikely. So even if we did have say 100 cases where SKs have operated in the same small area, judging by how rare SK happens anyway, I think the odds would like 1 in 1000 chance of it happening.

Isn't that the whole reason why when people like this get caught they get looked into for other possible connections in the area, especially if victimology is similar?

[Mr Stu]

no mate - i dont think its hugely unlikely, given the immigration into the east end at that time that an evil sod in the future might be amoungst them..you could not convict chapman on that - not then not now.for my tuppence worth - i dont think we even have his name on our suspect list.

[Mr Stu]

1/1ooo aint gonna convict anyone mate...i wish you had someting - i've looked at it too but cant see it