Can George Chapmam reform himself to being a calculating poisoner seven years later?.

[Batman]

Not if he was JtR.

[John G]

Where they criminally active in the same area? I think no right? So they didn't operate in the same areas.

However based on this I think there is nothing stopping a transient serial killer from passing through another one's grounds, but I think that would have just as much low probability as both operating in the same area at the same time.

But neither was Chapman criminally active in the same area. He'd moved out of Whitechapel by the time he started killing. Nor was he operating in the same time period but several years later.

[Batman]

Well, How about this then Neville Heath lodged at Linden Gardens Notting Hill and John Reginald Christie about a mile and a bit between the two by road, (In what is now called Bartle Road), less as the crow flies, not only that but they where both criminally active at the same time - Heath's first murder being in a hotel just round the corner from Linden Gardens in 1946.....and Christie already with a couple of victims under his belt....... so whilst it may seem unlikely it really isn't - just luck of the draw where people end up living ... just a random thing and quite possible.

Where they criminally active in the same area? I think no right? So they didn't operate in the same areas.

However based on this I think there is nothing stopping a transient serial killer from passing through another one's grounds, but I think that would have just as much low probability as both operating in the same area at the same time.

[Mr Stu]

I just realized that this comparison is a red herring.

West Yorkshire is 2,029 km2
London is 1,572 km2
Whitechapel is probably what 3km x 3km max? That's 9 km2.

You can fit approx. 250 Whitechapels into West Yorkshire with those figures.

Now what's that got to say about the odds of 2 serial killers operating in Whitechapel?

Well, How about this then Neville Heath lodged at Linden Gardens Notting Hill and John Reginald Christie about a mile and a bit between the two by road, (In what is now called Bartle Road), less as the crow flies, not only that but they where both criminally active at the same time - Heath's first murder being in a hotel just round the corner from Linden Gardens in 1946.....and Christie already with a couple of victims under his belt....... so whilst it may seem unlikely it really isn't - just luck of the draw where people end up living ... just a random thing and quite possible.

[John Wheat]

Sure. You brought up the topic of accuracy. Is it accurate to say Lucy wasn't assaulted by Chapman, as is Helena's position in her book?

Have you read Gordan?

To Batman

I have read Gordan's book, not that recently but not Helena's. So I can't comment on the accuracy of Helena's book.

Cheers John

[Batman]

To Batman

I don't get what this has to do with any of my post what so ever. Maybe you could explain yourself clearly?

Cheers John

Sure. You brought up the topic of accuracy. Is it accurate to say Lucy wasn't assaulted by Chapman, as is Helena's position in her book?

Have you read Gordan?

[John Wheat]

So maybe you can explain this... http://forum.casebook.org/showpost.p...&postcount=368

To Batman

I don't get what this has to do with any of my post what so ever. Maybe you could explain yourself clearly?

Cheers John

[Batman]

To John G

Gordan predictably provides no evidence that Chapman's first wife was one of the Torso Killers victims. Another problem with Gordan's book are that he suggests Chapman was Jack the Ripper and the Torso Killer. There are other problems e.g. its poorly researched, there are inaccuracies etc.

Cheers John

So maybe you can explain this... http://forum.casebook.org/showpost.p...&postcount=368

[John Wheat]

I'm sure he provides lots of evidence for that!

To John G

Gordan predictably provides no evidence that Chapman's first wife was one of the Torso Killers victims. Another problem with Gordan's book are that he suggests Chapman was Jack the Ripper and the Torso Killer. There are other problems e.g. its poorly researched, there are inaccuracies etc.

Cheers John

[Batman]

Lynn's suspect killed Nichols and Chapman, so no, my position, in the previous post, can't be reconciled with it like you are trying here.

[John G]

Yes, serial killers can coexist with non serial killing homicides in any area as that is historically well demonstrated.

Nice to see you adopting a "different killers" hypothesis, Lynn and Michael will be pleased! So which of the Torso Murders are linked in your opinion? Let me guess, it wouldn't be the murders that occurred after Chapman came to England by any chance, would it?

No doubt that's just a coincidence! Mind you, considering how precise the killer was when dismembering his victims, demonstrating surgical skill, it's really amazing that this could be achieved by someone who probably didn't have the skills of a common horse slaughterer!

It's also incredible that we now seem to have several rare Torso killers, but all demonstrating the same level of skill and using the same equipment to dismember the bodies, but only one JtR, who keeps changing not only his MO, but also his signature! Yes, that's starting to make a lot of sense.

Oh yes, Chapman was also a sadist, which JtR wasn't, and no evidence Torso was either. He was also a slow poisoner, not a violent killer, not a lust murderer. And did he actually murder anyone in Whitechapel?

[John G]

I like Gordon's suggestion that one of the torsos may have been Chapman's first wife, the real one.

I'm sure he provides lots of evidence for that!

[Batman]

Yes, serial killers can coexist with non serial killing homicides in any area as that is historically well demonstrated.

[Batman]

I like Gordon's suggestion that one of the torsos may have been Chapman's first wife, the real one.

[John G]

There is no 1st torso murder per se. Even Trow who suspects there may be a link between them all (while other writers do not, such Gordon), describes the Thames being a body part dumping area since executions where carried out along its bank in the dark ages, through to the middle ages, through to Victorian times, body parts have been pulled from the river. Even Trow ends his book by showing modern Torso's pulled from the Thames at the end and start of the 21st century. http://www.bbc.com/news/uk-21365961

I see. There is only one JtR but numerous Torso Murderers! The Torso Murders are linked by the skill demonstrated and the equipment used. The Girl with the Rose Tattoo is further linked because she was killed in an area constantly under police surveillance; this suggests he was taunting the police, as with the Whitehall Mystery. Her body was not dumped in the Thames. Chapman was in Poland at the time of the murder.

The Torso killer demonstrated surgical/anatomical skill; this was beyond Chapman's capabilities. Chapman may have been in Poland at the time of the Rainham Torso.

There is no evidence that any of the Torso victims were killed in Whitechapel.

Many of these matters have been discussed before.