Kłosowksi got married!

[Sam Flynn]

I don't know if anyone's found this before, or whether Ancestry.com has just undergone a refresh of its database indexes, but here's Severin (Seweryn/Soweryn) Kłosowski's marriage to Lucy Baderski (Lusie Baderska) registered in Mile End in 1889:



It would appear, therefore, that at least one of his British marriages was legit. I'll order the marriage certificate if I can*, and let you know what else it reveals.

* Edit: Marriage certificate ordered and on its way.

[Celesta]

I never would have believed it, Gareth. I thought they were all fake marriages, except for maybe the Polish wife. This if a good find. Thanks.

[Sam Flynn]

I never would have believed it, Gareth. I thought they were all fake marriages, except for maybe the Polish wife. This if a good find. Thanks.

Cheers, Celesta - although it may transpire to be a "rediscovery"!

I've dug around to find that Philip Sugden says the marriage was performed "in accordance with the rites of the German Catholics". I had quite forgotten this. Where Sugden got this specific info from I'm not sure, but he does cite the BMD index in the back of his book. However, he does so only in generic terms, and may have been referring to where he got his data about the birth and death of Kłosowski's and Baderski's son.

The other main source of Kłosowski info, HL Adam, quotes Stanislaus Baderski's evidence that he heard of his sister's wedding after the event, going on to say that Lucy told him the wedding happened in Union Street, Whitechapel, in October 1889. I thought that this was another example of Kłosowskian brain-washing, but this is apparently not the case.

It transpires that there was a German Church - St Boniface - in Union Street. The street has since been renamed to Adler Street, but the church is still there. If he had no other source, then Sugden may have ingeniously stitched the information together, before arriving at what I'm prepared to bet is the right conclusion. I'll let you know what the certificate says

[Celesta]

I knew about him being Catholic, but this other business is new. To me, at least.
Kind of makes one wonder bit though. Surely the other marriages were shams.

I was surprised at his being Catholic as I had thought he was Jewish. He did speak Yiddish, I understand, but he could have picked that up. I've known of Gentiles who did know quite a bit of Yiddish. I saw him as posing as Jewish, though I'm unsure of his reasons.

[Wolf Vanderlinden]

Neal Stubbings Shelden has done quite a lot of important work on Klosowski/Chapman in his time. In his 2003 pamphlet Catherine Eddowes Jack the Ripper Victim he writes that Klosowski married Lucy Baderski on the 29th of October, 1889, at St. Bonifaces German Roman Catholic Church, Union Street, Whitechapel. Klosowski was from "Russian Poland" while the Barderski's were from "German Poland" so the church was probably hers.

Wolf.

[Cap'n Jack]

Good stuff, Sam, I said all along that Kloso****ingwoski wasn't Jewish; and I also said that he wasn't in Whitechapel in 1888.

[Natalie Severn]

Good stuff, Sam, I said all along that Kloso****ingwoski wasn't Jewish; and I also said that he wasn't in Whitechapel in 1888.

Well I for one was never under the impression he was Jewish.And I knew he was married in a German Catholic rite.He was Polish ----why assume he was Jewish? This is beginning to sound a bit like an Anderson thread .....with Polish Jews popping up every time a ripper suspect gets mentioned!
And Cap"n, what do you mean when you say he wasnt in Whitechapel in 1888?
Do you have evidence for this and if so can you post it?
Thanks
Skipper

[Sam Flynn]

Neal Stubbings Shelden has done quite a lot of important work on Klosowski/Chapman in his time.

Thanks Wolf. Indeed, I'm aware of Neal's sterling work - Sugden even gives him a mention in the appendix to which I alluded earlier, which can't be bad. [Edit to add that I don't have the pamphlet to which you refer, however.]

(Neal - if you're reading this, mate, please don't tell me yet! My copy of the marriage cert should be with me by Friday 11th April; that little pleasure is all I have to look forward to, now that the Ospreys have bombed out of the Heineken Cup. I know you'll understand )

[Sam Flynn]

And Cap"n, what do you mean when you say he wasnt in Whitechapel in 1888? Do you have evidence for this and if so can you post it?

...he was playing for the Cincinnati Reds:



Middle row, second from left, Nats

[Natalie Severn]

...he was playing for the Cincinnati Reds:

[ATTACH]1216[/ATTACH]

Middle row, second from left, Nats

I laughed out loud at that one-very good Sam!

Hey Sam,you could do a good line in fabricating evidence for this and that if you felt so disposed!You really could.Stalin couldnt have employed anyone better to "touch up" one or two photos!
Nats

[Natalie Severn]

I knew about him being Catholic, but this other business is new. To me, at least.
Kind of makes one wonder bit though. Surely the other marriages were shams.

I was surprised at his being Catholic as I had thought he was Jewish. He did speak Yiddish, I understand, but he could have picked that up. I've known of Gentiles who did know quite a bit of Yiddish. I saw him as posing as Jewish, though I'm unsure of his reasons.

Hi Celesta,
I didnt know he did pose as Jewish actually.Maybe some people have assumed he was posing as a Jew because he spoke an Eastern European language they didnt understand?
Best
Natalie

[Celesta]

"Oh, no, say it ain't so, Joe! I mean Gareth!" And such a rare photo!


Nats, I thought Slowkowski was Jewish out of ignorance, I guess, and because I had read that he spoke Yiddish. When I read the book about him last year, I learned he was Catholic. Or maybe I got it from Rumbelow. Don't remember exactly.

Oops, our posts crossed in the mail! I got the impression from somewhere that he was posing as a Jew, though it didn't make a lot of sense to me. Is it not true that he spoke Yiddish?

You know, I've never really come to the conclusion that JtR was Jewish, but I accept that he could have been, merely because of the density of Jewish people in the area.

[Natalie Severn]

Hi Celesta,
Thats fair enough.I tend to accept the opinion of most of the other cops-Warren and Henry Smith in particular,that the Ripper was not Jewish.
Warren felt strongly that the Goulston Street Graffiti was written by JtR with the specific intention of making it look as though the Jews were to blame and he therefore believed he was not Jewish.I dont know why Henry Smith was so against the idea but he was.However, whoever he was,there isnt a shred of evidence of him having been Jewish as far as I can see.
Best
Natalie