Lucy Baderski

[Adam Went]

Hey all,

Apologies if this info is elsewhere, but does anybody know what became of Lucy Baderski after she split with Severin Klosowski? I know she picked him out in an identity parade in 1902 shortly before he went to trial, but other than that, haven't read a lot about her.

Thanks in advance for any info anyone can provide!

Cheers,
Adam.

[Natalie Severn]

Hi Adam,
I cant help here I am afraid.My impression has been that she and the rest of her family distanced themselves as much as they could, you can sense this distancing beginning I think in the trial.None of them come to the defence of Klosowski/Chapman.They state the bare facts as they can recall them and add nothing further.Also Lucy being the mother of his daughter must have meant she wanted to shield her child from the taunts of other children,so no doubt her silence ,after the trial,was intended.
Best
Norma

[Chris Scott]

Lucy Baderski

In the last quarter of 1889 her marriage to Klosowski/Chapman was registered in Mile End Old Town and the names of the two parties are spelt as follows:
Seweryn Klosowski
Lusie Baderska

Klosowski's death by hanging was registered as follows:
Name: Severin Klosowski
Estimated birth year: abt 1865
Year of Registration: 1903
Quarter of Registration: Apr-May-Jun
Age at Death: 38
District: Wandsworth
County: Greater London, London, Surrey

The couple had two children
1) A son as follows:
Name: Wladyslaw Klosowski
Year of Registration: 1890
Quarter of Registration: Jul-Aug-Sep
District: Whitechapel
County: London, Middlesex
This child died in March 1891. The couple were registered in the 1891 census and sometime later that year they emigrated to America.
2) and a daughter:
Name: Cecilia Klosowski
Year of Registration: 1892
Quarter of Registration: Apr-May-Jun
District: Whitechapel
County: London, Middlesex

In the same quarter of 1903 when Klosowski was hanged, Lucy was registered as remarrying:
Name: Lucy Klosowski
Year of Registration: 1903
Quarter of Registration: Apr-May-Jun
District: Bethnal Green
County: Greater London, London, Middlesex

Two couples are registered on that page of record as follows:
Mary Dymerska/ Mary Dymnrska 1903 Bethnal Green
Lucy Klosowski 1903 Bethnal Green
Frank Szymanski 1903 Bethnal Green
Thomas Szypniewski 1903 Bethnal Green

This record in itself does not make it clear who married whom. This must be done by a process of elimination.
I will be following this up and hope to find out what Lucy's surname by marriage became after 1903.

[Chris Scott]

In the 1891 census, the Klosowski couple are listed at 2 Tewkesbury Buildings, Whitechapel and their ages are given as follows:
Seweryn (sic) aged 26
Lucy aged 21
This would place Lucy's year of birth in or about 1870.

As she remarried in 1903, the first census in which she would appear under her new married name is that of 1911.
In that census we find a Lucy Szymanski aged 40 (i.e. born in or about 1871). She was living in Poplar where a number of children of that surname are listed but until I get sight of the actual record it is not clear which, if any, are hers.
However it appears that Lucy Baderski/Klosowski remarried in 1903 to Frank Szymanski and by 1911 was living in Poplar.

If anyone has access to the 1911 census I'd be grateful if they could look thyis record up and let us know the result.

[Chris Scott]

1911 census:
Address: 23 Latham Street, Poplar, London
Head: Lucy Szymanski aged 40 born Miscstadt, Poland
Children:
Henry aged 11
Helena aged 8
Walerya aged 4
Stanislawa aged 2
Frank aged 2 months
All born in Poplar

The details of Lucy's marriage are given as follows:
Completed years marriage has lasted: 13
Children born alive: 6
Children living: 5
Children who died: 1

Of course this raises certain questions. If this is Lucy Baderski she would have been married 8 years by 1911 and not 13. Also where is her husband, Frank, of whose death prior to this time I cannot find a trace.

[Natalie Severn]

Thanks Chris,a valuable find if its the same Lucy [or Lousie].
I am not sure this is the same Lucy though are you.For example there are several reports that say that Lucy Baderska went daily to the jail where Klosowski was taken under sentence of death and where he was executed on 7th April 1903. And that although Lucy is said to have tried to see him on many occasions he always refused.
If she was already married to someone else this fact would have probably been reported at the trial, which it wasnt.I also wonder what her new spouse would have thought about her going everyday to try to see her husband at the jail.Anyway it looks as though they must have married immediately after the execution if it was the same couple.
Finally there is no mention of Cecilia Klosowski, her daughter by Chapman born in 1892.

But there may be a perfectly plausible solution!
Cheers Chris,
Norma

[Chris Scott]

Hi Norma
I agree that there are problems with this identification and, as I don't regard Chapman as a preferred suspect - I fact I don't have one! - then I have no axe to grind on this matter. The one fact that seems very "convenient" is that Lucy Klosowski remarried in the very quarter her former spouse was hanged. Although the 1911 census says Lucy Szymanski had been married 13 "completed" years (i.e. she should have married Frank Szymanski some time prior to April 1898) in fact there is no record of such a marriage. This SUGGESTS to me (and it can be no more than that on the available evidence) that Lucy may have become involved with Frank Szymanski some time prior to 1898 but they could not legitimise their marriage while Lucy's supposedly legal husband still lived and so they finally married in 1903 as soon as it was legally possible for them to do so when Chapman/Klosowski was hanged.

[Natalie Severn]

Yes Chris,that all makes sense "but" at the March 1903 trial of Klosowski/Chapman, Mr Stanislaus Baderski Lucy"s brother ,stated in court ,"Lucy also had a daughter,who was now living".He added, "The boy [she had given birth to]had died"
So what happened to Cecilia? She was alive in 1903 when she would have been 11 or 12 years old. by 1911 when she would have been 19 or 20 she had moved out.Possibly even got married----her mother Lucy married Klosowski at 20 or so .I think that may be why she is absent.Also there is quite a gap between Cecilia and the next half sibling who was 11 in 1911 so living with her Mother, her step father and her step brothers and sisters may have been a bit crowded and not much fun for a single young woman.
Cheers Chris,
Norma

[m_w_r]

So what happened to Cecilia?

Hi Norma,

She got married to a chap called Albert Przygodzinski in 1908q4, and in 1911 they were living at 21 Leman Street with their baby daughter.



Regards,

Mark

[Natalie Severn]

Thanks so much for that Mark! Its also good to know she managed to get a life of her own.

[Chris Scott]

many thanks for that info mark
That is very helpful
Chris

[Chris Scott]

A few more details:

1908
Quarter 4
Stepney
Cecilia Klosowska married Albert Przygoszinski

Children:
Cecilia 1910 Married in 1932 - became Cecilia Brown
Albert J 1912 Married 1936
Wanda 1915 died 1935

Albert, Cecilia Klosowski's husband, died in 1950 aged 77 and she herself died in 1960 aged 67

[Adam Went]

Thank you all very much for the valuable information that's been provided on here. Really appreciate the effort, that's great.

Interesting that Lucy might well have still been in London into the 1900's - I can't help but wonder if, after the split with Klosowski, at some point she hadn't infact gone back to live in her homeland of Poland?

Severin also had a child with another woman in the 1890's by the name of Annie Chapman (where Severin got his alias from). It might even be possible to track down some living descendants of either Cecilia or the child with Chapman, who might have more of an idea what became of Lucy Baderski in later years? Just a thought.

Cheers,
Adam.

[Natalie Severn]

Yes,I"d like to echo Adam"s thanks to Chris and Mark in particular.Quite amazing research!
You are quite right Adam, Annie Chapman did have a daughter to Klosowski.I wonder what became of them? Annie was fine in 1903 and gave evidence against Klosowski at his murder trial of 1903,
Best
Norma

[Neal Shelden]

yeah, most, if not all of this research above has been published in the past. You can see a picture of Cecilia with her husband in Andy and Sue Parlour's book of many moons ago.
And, the so-called Annie Chapman was called Sarah Ann Chapman on the birth certificate of her son William Klosowski Chapman born in 1895, ref: my Eddowes booklet of less moons ago.