Article on Abberline's opinions

[Mitch Rowe]

Hi. If Chapman were Jack he would have used a knife. He didn't. Good post.

Could you please point me to the Verse that says that?

EDIT>>> I mean poisoning seems the smart thing to do. Chapman couldnt just Murder them and expect nothing to happen. He could claim they ran away if he could get rid of the body. The easiest solution for him at that time was poisoning. No murder. No messy cleanup. What more could a fiend ask for?

[Varqm]

George hold your position/belief. There are a lot of know-it-all here. They try
to hoodwink you. They make it appear like they are smart.It's mostly ego with no facts to back it up.

[mac-the-kipper]

If anyone says it wasn't Chapman they clearly just want to keep this rolling for rollings sake. Chapman was the Ripper and its pretty bloody obvious.

Arrest this man immediately!

[mac-the-kipper]

George hold your position/belief. There are a lot of know-it-all here. They try
to hoodwink you. They make it appear like they are smart.It's mostly ego with no facts to back it up.

You will be in lots of bother saying things like that!










I like it!

[Ben]

Hi Mitch,

The easiest solution for him at that time was poisoning. No murder. No messy cleanup. What more could a fiend ask for?

Well, he could have continued not marrying his victims and avoid that problem altogether.

You will be in lots of bother saying things like that!

Nah Mac. Varqm pops in occasionally with the odd snide one-liner before disappearing for a week. To give him a good dressing-down would be to accord more importance to the situation that in deserves.

[Billy Bulger]

Why, among Chapman-nay-sayers is there such a preoccupation with the fact that murders legally attributed to this surgeon-cum-barber did not involve a knife or violence? I'm not a shrink but for me, a man who could slowly poison women who cared for him to death is a man who is capable of anything. Further, in murdering his wives over prolonged periods, Chapman employed a horrible callousness and daring, characteristics akin to the Ripper crimes; and besides which, there have been a great many cases of serial murderers varying their MO.
I'm not saying I think Chapman was the Ripper but i would certainly regard him as high on the list of the more sober candidates.


_____________________________
It was Dr.Gull and you know it was!

[Ben]

Hi Billy,

Chapman employed a horrible callousness and daring, characteristics akin to the Ripper crimes; and besides which, there have been a great many cases of serial murderers varying their MO.

But rarely, if ever, to such a drastic extent.

Serial killers who resort to physical violence will often vary the type of physical violence, but they tend not to forgo violence altogether when revising their method. More problematic than the "how" is the "why". Why did he start marrying his victims when he was getting along fine with his usual approach of killing strangers? I don't think it's quite enough to assume that maybe there was something that caused his circumstances to change.

Best regards,
Ben

[george chapman]

Chapman did it.........

For crying out loud people. You have all the facts and figures about chapman and you still witter on about changing his mo. How about he gets out his black & decker and carves up his three wives and then says it wasn't me guvnor in his best east end accent. CAN ANYBODY TELL ME WHY IT WASNT HIM?

[Roy Corduroy]

George, my bad, I said someone should write a book about him. It's already been done. The Trial of George Chapman by William Hodge, 1930 which included a large section acout Chapman as the Ripper. Have you read it?

Roy

[Ben]

I don't think anyone has made a definite assertion that "it wasn't him", George. A number of posters have offered good reasons for filing him under "probably not", which contrast markedly with your approach of: "It was Klosowski. It's obvious. Show me why I'm wrong".

Generally, the onus is on the accuser to make the case for a specific suspect, rather than being placed on everyone else to prove that suspect innocent.

Regards,
Ben

[george chapman]

Very measured I'm sure, but we are not in a court of law here and it appears to me there are NO other even half decent suspects as they were either mad, wrong build, didnt look like witness descriptions and had no surgical knowledge and thats just to get us started.
I believe that puts him in a minority of one not to mention the fact the murders started when he arrived and continued in the USA when he moved there. He was also hung for murder.

[Stephen Thomas]

I said someone should write a book about him. It's already been done. The Trial of George Chapman by William Hodge, 1930 which included a large section about Chapman as the Ripper.

Hi Roy

It's actually called Trial of George Chapman (no 'The' for some reason) and the author is H. L. Adam.

Who is William Hodge?

[Sam Flynn]

Who is William Hodge?

The publishers of Trial of George Chapman (William Hodge & Company, Limited, Edinburgh and London), and the rest of the books in the "Notable British Trials" series, Stephen.

[perrymason]

Thanks for the post Chris, and to Simon for offering it up.

The section I captured is of great interest to me, and I believe makes a weak case for Chapman as Annie Chapmens killer....the one that medical authorities suggested was killed so as to obtain her uterus.

There is still another link in the chain with which, as the author of the Whitechapel murders, the ex Scotland Yarder is seeking to forge about the Pole, Klosowski, and curiously enough, it is also particularly of interest to Americans.
"While the Coroner was investigating one of the East End murders," says ex Inspector Abberline, "he told the jury a very queer story. You will remember that the divisional surgeon, who made the post mortem examination, not only spoke of the skilfulness with which the knife had been used, but stated that there was overwhelming evidence to show that the criminal had so mutilated the body that he could possess himself of one of the organs. The coroner, on commenting on this, said that he had been told by the sub curator of the pathological museum connected with one of the great medical schools that some few months before an American had called upon him and asked him to procure a number of specimens. He stated his willingness to give $100 for each. Although the strange visitor was told that his wish was impossible of fulfilment, he still urged his request. It was known that the request was repeated at another institution of a similar character in London. The Coroner at the time said 'Is it not possible that a knowledge of this demand may have inspired some abandoned wretch to possess himself of the specimens? It seems beyond belief that such inhuman wickedness could enter into the mind of any man; but, unfortunately, our criminal annals prove that every crime is possible.'"
"It is a remarkable thing," Abberline pointed out, "that after the Whitechapel horrors America should have been the place where a similar kind of murder began,as though the miscreant had not fully supplied the demand of the American agent."

I believe that the references in this excerpt do not help make a convincing case for someone like Chapman to be targeting uteri, but they do for someone alledged to have a collection, who is from American, and a "Doctor".

Cheers all.

[Ben]

they were either mad, wrong build, didnt look like witness descriptions and had no surgical knowledge and thats just to get us started

Aren't we dealing with some rather moot points here, George? For example:

"Mad"? Well, what if the real ripper was "mad"?

Wrong build? Well, what's the "right" build? A number of witnesses described men with a stoutish build, which is the exact opposite to Klosowski. Certainly Klosowski is a misfit for pretty much all witness descriptions.

Surgical knowledge? Well, what if the ripper didn't have any, as suggested by the preponderance of medical evidence?

The USA murders were unlikely to have been perpetrated by Jack the Ripper, let alone Severin Klosowski. You highlight the fact that Klosowski was hanged for murder, but so was William Henry Bury. I'd be interested to know why you aren't as excited about him.

Best regards,
Ben