change in modus operandi

[Malcolm X]

Well this has to be investigated and can be by going to Holborn Library at some point.

I am sure Cable Street would have been a rented business premises,Sam.However I was thinking more that London"s Barber shops mostly have and had basements----you can still see lots of them in areas around Cheapside.I used to know someone who took a lease out on a barber shop in Holborn a few years back.It had a spooky staircase down to a basement which she and her partner did up with fresh paint and made in into a place to sleep in .All it had was a sink when they first had the lease.
And no, Klosowski didnt need to actually "live" there,just be able to use it,whenever he needed as when for example , he badly needed a wash and brush up [late at night?]----all nice and deserted just behind the railway lines and Pinchin Street!
But I doubt very much that Severin would have let the lads in after hours----unless he was another Dennis Nielsen ofcourse!

...you've really got it in for this guy Nats, it's easy to make a suspect look like the Ripper, but take care that this isn't clouding your judgement and that you're not fooling yourself

now Chapman looks guilty as hell and Hutchinson looks equally guilty too, but life tells me it isn't as straitforward as this.

you're looking for murders in America..but i dont think Chapman buried people on his premises, sure; Chapman had a bizarre/interesting life and he's got what it takes to be the ripper...EASILY.... but this switch of M.O to a poisoner; although it's easy to understand, ...it still doesn't feel right.

the bombing raids of WW2 on London have probably destroyed all remaining evidence.... i cant see us ever solving the Ripper murders.

i've never known a suspect as guilty looking as Chapman, the coincidences are increadible...the BBC did a documentary on Chapman years, really good it was, the actor looked just like him.....must be about 15 years ago.. it was one of these ``true crime`` programes

[Nothing to see]

Chapman/Kloswoski is only ever considered as Jack because of Abberline.

Why Abberline would link slash and thrash Jack with poisoner Chapman is interesting. Makes no sense because I can't see Jack deciding after Kelly that he doesn't want to murder women that way any more. He's a pro. Why change to poison?

Which makes you wonder about Abberline. He knew the area. Yes. I feel like I'm breaking a confidence here but just how smart was he?

I always thought Abberline was the man but I'm starting to wonder.

Was he just getting old?

[protohistorian]

No, he is only ever considered by you.

[Nothing to see]

Who is only considered by me? You want a fish slap dance by a canal to decide this Dave? Bring it on.

[protohistorian]

not a fish dance please! An honest evaluation of behavior.

[Natalie Severn]

Chapman/Kloswoski is only ever considered as Jack because of Abberline.

Why Abberline would link slash and thrash Jack with poisoner Chapman is interesting. Makes no sense because I can't see Jack deciding after Kelly that he doesn't want to murder women that way any more. He's a pro. Why change to poison?

Which makes you wonder about Abberline. He knew the area. Yes. I feel like I'm breaking a confidence here but just how smart was he?

I always thought Abberline was the man but I'm starting to wonder.

Was he just getting old?

Come on----he was probably murdering homeless women throughout---and constantly on the move to cover his tracks.Probably,when his wives got wind of something,it made him paranoid about them.He could hardly mutilate them---much too dangerous.Poison,he wrongly believed,wouldnt be suspected in their case.



Malcolm X

I never said he did the same in America.He apparently owned a very sharp knife that he threatened to cut off his wife"s head with [according to the Crime reporter at his trial and reported in the Daily Chronicle of 23 March 1903].He MAY have committed one or two murders on the homeless or women from the vagrant community of New Jersey,but we as yet know nothing of them.

[Malcolm X]

Malcolm X

I never said he did the same in America.He apparently owned a very sharp knife that he threatened to cut off his wife"s head with [according to the Crime reporter at his trial and reported in the Daily Chronicle of 23 March 1903].He MAY have committed one or two murders on the homeless or women from the vagrant community of New Jersey,but we as yet know nothing of them.

yea' i know you didnt ...but that's the sort of heavyweight ammo we need....owning a sharp knife makes you no killer..i've got one under my bed too, it's been there for 10 years....just in case!

you've loads of enthusiasm..keep going

[Natalie Severn]

yea' i know you didnt ...but that's the sort of heavyweight ammo we need....owning a sharp knife makes you no killer..i've got one under my bed too, it's been there for 10 years....just in case!

you've loads of enthusiasm..keep going

But Klosowski was a killer.

So when he threatened to cut his wife"s head off and told her nobody would know because he would simply say she had "gone to New York",it was probably what he would have done,if she hadnt upped and left him there and then and made her way back to England from New Jersey.

[Ben]

He could hardly mutilate them---much too dangerous.Poison,he wrongly believed,wouldnt be suspected in their case.

Or he could have avoided that "dangerous" problem altogether by simply not marrying his indended victims, Norma.

Cheers,
Ben

[Malcolm X]

But Klosowski was a killer.

So when he threatened to cut his wife"s head off and told her nobody would know because he would simply say she had "gone to New York",it was probably what he would have done,if she hadnt upped and left him there and then and made her way back to England from New Jersey.

or did he say it in the heat of the moment, but didn't meant it.... we just cant tell can we.

[protohistorian]

yeah, sure, Mr. Spontaneous and idle threats!

[Natalie Severn]

Or he could have avoided that "dangerous" problem altogether by simply not marrying his indended victims, Norma.

Cheers,
Ben

He could have Ben, and its an interesting point.But in an unconventional sort of way Chapman appears to have been quite a romantic character-we hear of him "kissing Mary Spink" and upsetting his landlady by conducting a rather" indiscreet affair" with her in the lodging house where they appear to have met.
The musical shaves he and Mary put on ,off beat though they were,may suggest more than a touch of a fantasy world he had created -also sailing up and down the coast posing as a skipper in his boat for all to see- "The Mosquito" at Hastings,while telling another young woman he took up with -while living with Mary in Hastings- that he was the manager of a piano forte shop.In fact he seems to have been a Walter Mitty type character living in this fantasy world a lot of the time where as king of the castle ,he boasted about adventures at sea,posed as an American---even telling the judge at his murder trial that he was American and displaying the stars and stripes in his pubs at the same time telling everybody he was a "big game hunter".
All this fits with him chasing round after women,quickly seducing them with his kissing and romantic talk,dumping them when he lost interest and moving rapidly onto his next "hobby"-----and his "hobbies" certainly seem to have been varied,as was his need to change partners ,addresses and jobs every year or so .

[protohistorian]

Ben, your assuming murderous intent preceeded the relationship. It is possible, but very unlikely.

[Malcolm X]

He could have Ben, and its an interesting point.But in an unconventional sort of way Chapman appears to have been quite a romantic character-we hear of him "kissing Mary Spink" and upsetting his landlady by conducting a rather" indiscreet affair" with her in the lodging house where they appear to have met.
The musical shaves he and Mary put on ,off beat though they were,may suggest more than a touch of a fantasy world he had created -also sailing up and down the coast posing as a skipper in his boat for all to see- "The Mosquito" at Hastings,while telling another young woman he took up with -while living with Mary in Hastings- that he was the manager of a piano forte shop.In fact he seems to have been a Walter Mitty type character living in this fantasy world a lot of the time where as king of the castle ,he boasted about adventures at sea,posed as an American---even telling the judge at his murder trial that he was American and displaying the stars and stripes in his pubs at the same time telling everybody he was a "big game hunter".
All this fits with him chasing round after women,quickly seducing them with his kissing and romantic talk,dumping them when he lost interest and moving rapidly onto his next "hobby"-----and his "hobbies" certainly seem to have been varied,as was his need to change partners ,addresses and jobs every year or so .

yes, good post Natalie

he was a rolling stone that gathers no moss... and the Ripper left Whitechapel too, he gathered no moss either.... but we need proof

[Ben]

All true, Norma, of course.

I guess I have trouble picturing the killer as a great seducer and womanizer.

Hi Dave, I agree that murderous intent was unlikely to have preceded the relationships, but it's still an unusual change in victimology, since there was nothing to have prevented him from continuing with his presumed earlier method of dispatch beyond the steps he took to make it more difficult.

Regards,
Ben