an Addy for Severin

[protohistorian]

On page 240 of The Elements of Murder John Emsley gives Severin's !st address in London as 54 Cranbrook street, Bethnal Green. Emsley states that this address comes from inside a polish book Severin had at arrest. Respectfully Dave

[Natalie Severn]

On page 240 of The Elements of Murder John Emsley gives Severin's !st address in London as 54 Cranbrook street, Bethnal Green. Emsley states that this address comes from inside a polish book Severin had at arrest. Respectfully Dave

Thanks Dave.This is interesting but when and where did John Emsley find such information? Also does he say when it was-what year and month?

Cheers
Norma

[halomanuk]

Does he give a year for this address Dave?

[protohistorian]

Does he give a year for this address Dave?

He does not but he has the timing as conventionally understood and he asserts it's primacy. I am assuming he gathered that contextually. Respectfully Dave

[halomanuk]

Mmm so it would have to be at least June/july 1887...

[Sam Flynn]

Mmm so it would have to be at least June/july 1887...

No, because the best information at the disposal of the Solicitor General at Klosowski's interest only allowed him to opine that Klosowski arrived in England "sometime" during 1888. Furthermore, contextually-speaking, the sum total of the witness testimony would seem to support this same conclusion.

The pro-1887 argument is based on the fact that Klosowski's last (kept) documents from Poland included a receipt for tuition fees that took him up to March 1887. It is often assumed that he somehow "must have" upped-stumps and left Poland almost immediately thereafter, but this remains pure speculation.

[halomanuk]

So we all assume together then ?

[Sam Flynn]

So we all assume together then ?

The only assumption is that he arrived in London in 1887 - none of the witness testimony in any way supports this.

[Sam Flynn]

Cranbrook Street

Thanks Dave.This is interesting but when and where did John Emsley find such information? Also does he say when it was-what year and month?

The "500 Ways to Poison Your Wife" book (only joking!) was actually mentioned in HL Adam's book The Trial of George Chapman, Nats, along with other personal effects found after Klosowski's arrest. No dates are given in connection with the book, nor any context by which one might conclude that Klosowski's sojourn in Cranbrook Street predated his staying with Abraham and Ethel Radin near the Docks.

For information, the area in which Cranbrook Street is located was designated by Booth as inhabited by people exhibiting "poverty and chronic want" (dark blue) in his surveys. Here's the relevant bit of his 1888/89 map:



Unfortunately, Cranbrook Street itself (and many of the others) hadn't been "coloured in" by Booth, but a census survey confirms that it was populated by people in comparatively lowly professions:

1881 Census Return for 54, Cranbrook St, Bethnal Green
George Page (Head), 40, b. Surrey. Packing Case Maker
Mary Page (Wife), 39, b. Shoreditch
Emma (Daur), 13, b. Bethnal Green. Scholar
Harriett (Daur), 7, b. Bethnal Green. Scholar
Lizzie (Daur), 2, b. Bethnal Green
Jane (Daur), 4, b. Bethnal Green
John Mignol (Lodger), 22, b. Bethnal Green. Boot Maker
Ellen Mignol (Wife), 22, b. Bethnal Green. Boot Fitter
Ellen (Daur), 2, b. Bethnal Green
Mary (Mother [of lodger], 52, b. Bethnal Green. Laundress
Joseph Mignol (Boarder), 18, b. Bethnal Green. Boot Maker
Ellen Brown (Lodger), 34, b. Haggerston. Fancy Trimmings Hand
Ellen Brown (Daur), 15, b. Bethnal Green. Fancy Trimmings Hand
George Brown (Son), 12, b. Bethnal Green. Scholar

Neighbours - Labourers, Boot makers, Washer-woman, Wheelwright, Grocer, Charwoman, Hawker, Paste-filler, Brush Maker, Sailor. All have English surnames, majority born in Bethnal Green.

1891 Census Return for 54, Cranbrook St, Bethnal Green
William Newman (Head), 40, b. Bethnal Green. Size Maker (glue)
Louisa Newman (Wife), 40, b. Bethnal Green
Albert V (Son), 15, b. Shoreditch. Stamp Perforator
Rose A (Daur), 13, b. St Lukes. Domestic Servant
Jessie F (Daur), 11, b. St Lukes. Scholar
Priscilla B (Daur), 9, b. Bethnal Green
Ernest P (Son), 4, b. Bethnal Green
Alice L (Daur), 4, b. Bethnal Green
Emily M (Daur), 2, b. Bethnal Green
Edith G (Daur), 8 months, b. Bethnal Green

Neighbours - Boot finishers, Shoemakers, Boot Machinists, Needlewoman, Hawkers, Box Makers. All have English surnames, overwhelming majority born in or around Bethnal Green.

Cranbrook Street doesn't seem to have been a particularly "immigrant" area at all, which strongly suggests that it wasn't Severin's first port of call after disembarking in London. Indeed, the more logical place for that would have been his first known address, namely West India Dock Road.

[Natalie Severn]

Sam,
Thanks a lot for posting this information.I am making enquiries about the address currently.
Cheers
Norma
xx

[Sam Flynn]

Carried over from "Change of MO" thread

Importantly too,there seems to have been an even earlier address than Mrs Radin"s at 70 West India Dock Road, it being 54 Cranbrook Street

Unfortunately, there's no suggestion this was an earlier address, Nats - in fact, it seems rather unlikely. As I mentioned above, census searches show that Cranbrook Street had a significantly "British" population, and would hardly have been the first port of call for an immigrant Pole. It's also about 4 miles north of the docks.

For info, here's a piccy of Cranbrook Street, taken I know not when - but well after Severin's time, no doubt:

[Natalie Severn]

Thanks Sam,
My own reasoning rests a]on my own experiences and b on the addresses referred to in the testimony of witnesses throughout his trial.
When I returned from living in Canada [many years ago] I wrote my address in a large dictionary I had acquired and a few other books I owned then.I moved several times afterwards but didnt change the address in them again.
In The Trial of George Chapman,his London addresses are noted pretty much throughout as witnesses appear in the box.They are given by Mrs Radin,1888 ,Mr Baderski,1889 Wolf Levisohn,1888 and others afterwards,the address of the lodging house where he got into trouble for kissing Mrs Spink on the landing 1895, addresses follow for his short time in Hastings ,then for his return to The Prince of Wales Pub in City Road and The Monument and The Crown in Southwark in 1897/8/9-1902.
The only address that seems to be missing is

54 Cranbrook Street, Mile End.

This makes me think he stayed there BEFORE he stayed with Mrs Radin at 70 West India Dock Road,the earliest address given out at the trial.So from the time of his stay with the Radins ,probably in early 1888, up to 1903,we can trace his addresses ------BUT --- 54 Cranbrook Street doesnt figure!So it looks to me like this was his first address.

[Sam Flynn]

This makes me think he stayed there BEFORE he stayed with Mrs Radin at 70 West India Dock Road.

I don't - for the reasons I've already given. Here's another one:

He seems to have worked his way gradually north, starting at the docks (where one might expect an immigrant to start), thence to Cable Street, Whitechapel High Street, and on to Greenfield Street. Cranbrook Street is well north of the docks.

If I were to hazard a guess at a date for his tenure in Cranbrook Street, I'd put it at around 1893/94, when he might have picked up enough English to survive in a predominantly non-immigrant neighbourhood.

[Natalie Severn]

I don't - for the reasons I've already given. Here's another one:

He seems to have worked his way gradually north, starting at the docks (where one might expect an immigrant to start), thence to Cable Street, Whitechapel High Street, and on to Greenfield Street. Cranbrook Street is well north of the docks.

If I were to hazard a guess at a date for his tenure in Cranbrook Street, I'd put it at around 1893/94, when he might have picked up enough English to survive in a predominantly non-immigrant neighbourhood.

Good reasoning Sam but it isnt tallying with the timeline of addresses I have been able to work out so far.

Its pretty clear from Wolff Levisohn"s testimony ,that he was in Whitechapel High Street first in 1888 on the corner of George Yard working there first as an "assistant hairdresser" ---THEN he became proprietor of a barber shop in Cable Street.This is the sequence Levisohn states.It is after these events that he also became proprietor of the Whitechapel High Street/George Yard Barber Shop.

[Sam Flynn]

Whatever Wolf Levisohn said has absolutely no bearing on the logic of what I put forward, Nats - in fact, it doesn't contradict it in any way, for where was Klosowski during the years after 1890 where Levisohn lost sight of him, and the "dark ages" between his documented relationships? (I bet you a pound to a penny that part of the answer is "Cranbrook Street".)

Inasmuch as Levisohn's testimony IS relevant, did he not say that Klosowski was able to speak a little English in the 1890s, before which he spoke Polish and Yiddish?

Cranbrook Street was predominantly English, and four miles away from the Docks. There is no way that a newly-landed Polish-speaking immigrant was going to head there as soon as he was off the ship. On the contrary, it makes eminent sense that he'd make a bee-line for lodgings near the Docks, where he could understand his fellow-lodgers and maximise his chances of finding work. Enter Abraham Radin.