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  • Profession of James Kelly

    Pierre's Profession of Jack the Ripper thread got me thinking about one of my favorite suspects.

    I seem to recall that Kelly was employed as an upholsterer. Would a knife be a common tool for this type of employment? If so, would the size/blade type etc. be similar to the murder weapon. I am most clueless in the field of upholstery.

  • #2
    Originally posted by Barnaby View Post
    Pierre's Profession of Jack the Ripper thread got me thinking about one of my favorite suspects.

    I seem to recall that Kelly was employed as an upholsterer. Would a knife be a common tool for this type of employment? If so, would the size/blade type etc. be similar to the murder weapon. I am most clueless in the field of upholstery.
    A knife would be norm for an upholsterer.

    Would ir be the type Jack used?

    Depends on what sort you think he used.

    Normally it would be short, very sharp and possibly a curved blade.
    G U T

    There are two ways to be fooled, one is to believe what isn't true, the other is to refuse to believe that which is true.

    Comment


    • #3
      The only upholsterers' knives I've seen are about 3" to 4" long in the blade but these are rather wide and are rounded at the ends, not sharp at all. Some professions had knives that would be ideal for Jack. Wasn't Leather apron a slipper maker who used sharp knives in his work?

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      • #4
        Have a look here

        http://www.wsusol.com/p-4498-tools-a...nife-each.aspx
        G U T

        There are two ways to be fooled, one is to believe what isn't true, the other is to refuse to believe that which is true.

        Comment


        • #5
          This is a bootmaker's.

          My Paternal Grandfather had some just like it. You could almost shave with the "slanted" edge.

          http://www.hobbytools.com.au/bootmakers-knife/
          G U T

          There are two ways to be fooled, one is to believe what isn't true, the other is to refuse to believe that which is true.

          Comment


          • #6
            Knives

            Kelly is recorded to have threatened his wife with a carving knife some five years before the 'Ripper' sequence began.
            I can't imagine why an upholsterer would be carrying a trade knife around the streets in the early hours of the morning; nor, indeed, why that would be the only knife he (or anyone else) could obtain in 1888. Knives could be bought without any legal restriction, and could legally be carried, until the 'Restriction of Offensive Weapons Act' of 1959/61.

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            • #7
              Continuation of the above

              I have little interest in the 'who' of the 'Ripper', but it does seem to me that Kelly fits quite well the model of the 'Disorganized Serial Killer' into which the 'Ripper' slots like a hand in a glove. In addition to the points from the Behavior Analysis Unit of the FBI which I summarized on another thread ('Disorganized Serial Killers' show no coherent ritual elements, do not taunt their investigators and do not write to the authorities) several others speak of Kelly - lower than average intelligence, serious difficulty in maintaining relationships, inability to hold down a regular job ...
              Whatever he was doctoring himself with to 'cure' his STD (maybe the contemporary wonder drugs, cocaine and heroin?) could well have spilled his already disturbed psychology over a final step?
              Anyway. Definitely a front runner, for those interested in seeking him!

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              • #8
                I think I've read somewhere, in connection with James Kelly, that supposedly those in the upholstery trade who remove old coverings from furniture are called "rippers" and use a "ripping" knife.
                Ignoring the obvious allusion to Jack's "trade name" in a supposed letter, it is entirely possible that an upholster urged serial murderer might use a different knife than his trade one.
                Pat D. https://forum.casebook.org/core/imag...rt/reading.gif
                ---------------
                Von Konigswald: Jack the Ripper plays shuffleboard. -- Happy Birthday, Wanda June by Kurt Vonnegut, c.1970.
                ---------------

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                • #9
                  Can anyone tell me why this interesting suspect hadn't been discussed for the last 4 years?!



                  The Baron

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                  • #10
                    The most common tool used would be an upholsterer's chisel. Kelly spent most of the time on the run after his escape and would hardly have taken time to murder and disembowel prostitutes.

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                    • #11
                      The Tully book on Kelly was one that I’ve been intending to re-read but I haven’t gotten round to it. At the risk of giving Baron a heart attack at the thought of me agreeing with him I seem to recall that he was an interesting suspect and I recalled enjoying the book. My memory of the facts are too foggy to comment at the moment though but I’ve just checked my books and found my copy of John Morrison’s pamphlet ‘Jimmy Kelly’s Year Of The Ripper Murders.’ I think Morrison was the first to name Kelly and I’m pretty sure that he payed for Mary Kelly’s gravestone?
                      Regards

                      Herlock



                      “All conspiracy theories are the product of the subconscious attempt of an ignorant yet creative mind to counteract the fear of the unknown with the tales of fantasy.” Abhijit Naskar.

                      “Conspiracy theorists, she knew, were paranoid by definition, and usually with good reason - they were indeed being watched, largely because they were standing on an upturned bucket, haranguing the sheeple with their wingnut delusions.” Mick Herron.

                      ”The most confused you will ever get is when you try to convince your heart and spirit of something your mind knows is a lie.” Shannon L. Alder.

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                      • #12
                        Originally posted by The Baron View Post
                        Can anyone tell me why this interesting suspect hadn't been discussed for the last 4 years?!



                        The Baron
                        yeah hes kind of gotten forgotten, but i think he is one of a handful of viable suspects.
                        known woman murderer
                        knife used
                        person of interest at the time
                        local
                        the start and stop of the c5 coincide with his movements
                        escaped from prison
                        and he was crazy, like a fox that is.

                        he ticks alot of boxes and i think he fits the profile pretty well. plus he was quite the crafty guy, i could see someone like him being able to ruse his victims and being able to pull off the double event.
                        "Is all that we see or seem
                        but a dream within a dream?"

                        -Edgar Allan Poe


                        "...the man and the peaked cap he is said to have worn
                        quite tallies with the descriptions I got of him."

                        -Frederick G. Abberline

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                        • #13
                          Throughout the years I have maintained that both circumstancial and hard evidence about this individual make him the most suitable suspect.

                          Comment


                          • #14
                            Originally posted by Lipsky View Post
                            Throughout the years I have maintained that both circumstancial and hard evidence about this individual make him the most suitable suspect.
                            agree he is a valid suspect-see my post above yours. And i know there is circumstantial evidence. but whats the "hard evidence"?
                            "Is all that we see or seem
                            but a dream within a dream?"

                            -Edgar Allan Poe


                            "...the man and the peaked cap he is said to have worn
                            quite tallies with the descriptions I got of him."

                            -Frederick G. Abberline

                            Comment


                            • #15
                              Originally posted by Abby Normal View Post

                              agree he is a valid suspect-see my post above yours. And i know there is circumstantial evidence. but whats the "hard evidence"?
                              I meant the hard evidence of Kelly's murderous activities and mental ilness/deranged/ con artist personality.

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