James Kelly: Forgotten Suspect?

[John Wheat]

Here's a little newspaper snippet from January 1911 for the same funeral company; around 10 years before we see John Miller (James Kelly) working for them.


Note that the address is different, albeit still very close to the Bethnal Green Road.

There were also road number changes at some point I believe.





It also suggests that in 1911, the company had multiple sites, including Well Street in Hackney.


One thing is for certain; the funeral company was also active around the time of the Ripper killings.



The company's proximity to the top of Brady Street is also worth noting.



Has James Kelly swung back into the limelight, or is this talk of him being a suspect in the Ripper case simply a waste of time?




RD

No Kelly is one of the best suspects there are.

[Lewis C]

Hi all


This is fascinating...



In the 1921 census (June 19th) James Kelly is living at 16 King Henry's Walk, in Mildmay, Islington, north London.

It appears his residence was located just south of the 'North London line' that ran through 'Mildmay Park' train station.

Mildmay Park train station opened in 1880 but closed in 1934.


But, it's not his residence that is the most interesting, nor his proximity to the train line...it's his occupation...



He was working at a Funeral Directors located on Bethnal Green Road.

The Company IS called W. English & Son.

James Kelly was working under the alias/alternate name; "John Miller"

He is aged 60 years and 4 months.

Although his "Occupation" is listed as Upholsterer and Coach Trimmer.

Birthplace... is listed as Liverpool


But it's James Kelly


Here's the evidence from the 1921 Census...

(Note that I have had to upload in 2 separate pages as the file had too large a parameter. Hopefully, it will be fairly obvious how the 2 pages fit together)

Also, note that at the bottom right of the census page is James Kelly's signature....as John Miller)







What's all the more fascinating is that the Funeral Directors that James Kelly worked for in 1921, is STILL operating at the same location on Bethnal Green Road TODAY.


Now, it may well be worth contacting them to see if they have an Archivist.

They may have employment and personal records for John Miller (James Kelly) that may tell us when he started, when he left, and even more interestingly; his conduct during his employment.

Why wait for 2030, when they may have his personnel file from his work at the funeral directors?


How apt that he went to work at a place where he would see death every day.

For someone of Kelly's mental disposition; that makes things all the more macabre



RD

Hi RD,

I can't read the downloads, but that is interesting. The only problem I see is that the age isn't quite right. On 19 June 1921, Kelly would have been one day short of 61 years and 2 months rather than 60 years and 4 months. But Kelly was an upholsterer and coach trimmer, and John Miller was Kelly's father's name.

[The Rookie Detective]

Somewhat confusingly; the company James Kelly worked for; a funeral director in Bethnal Green, is not to be mistaken for another company established in 1864; also called W.English...

This is from 1894...




2 companies with the same/similar name, but one dealing in specialist clothing and tailoring etc...and the other a funeral director (for which James Kelly worked in 1921)


Is there a possible link between them?

Or no connection?


Lots to ponder




RD

[The Rookie Detective]

Hi RD,

I can't read the downloads, but that is interesting. The only problem I see is that the age isn't quite right. On 19 June 1921, Kelly would have been one day short of 61 years and 2 months rather than 60 years and 4 months. But Kelly was an upholsterer and coach trimmer, and John Miller was Kelly's father's name.

Hi Lewis



The age on the census is negligible

It is commonplace for ages to be incorrect on a census and be out (in this case by 10 months)

There is less than a year's discrepancy and that is close enough to be negligible.

Let's not forget that James Kelly is unlikely to give his exact date of birth if he is going by a false name.


His occupation also matches perfectly


We know that James Kelly went by the name John Miller

His name also therefore matches perfectly


We also know that he was seen in North London in the timeframe in question.

This matches the geographic location of the data on the census I have uploaded.


At this point (1921) Kelly was seemingly trying to conceal his true identity, and so his alias of John Miller is the name he used regularly.


I believe the data I have found is indeed James Kelly and bridges the current gap in his timeline


The census data I have presented IS James Kelly.


But just to add some credence to the concrete, next week I will endeavor to contact the company W.English and Son, and ask if they have an archivist who is able and/or willing to take a look at it.

I would imagine a company that has been established since 1817 would have some kind of historic record system including personnel files from all previous employees.


Unless someone else gets there before me of course, haha!



There is also a chance that he lied about his work, although one thing that runs true about individuals like James Kelly... they change their name, change their age, change their marital status...but they always tend to state the same correct occupation.


Albert Bachert was exactly the same; he couldn't resist calling himself an Engraver, and Kelly was the same with stating his correct work skill set on the census.



I would urge you all to look at the data I have uploaded and see what your thoughts are.

I have to thank Herlock personally for reigniting such a fabulous suspect in James Kelly



Does his working at a Funeral Director add another degree of fascination towards a man who may have thrived in that environment?



RD

[Herlock Sholmes]

Somewhat confusingly; the company James Kelly worked for; a funeral director in Bethnal Green, is not to be mistaken for another company established in 1864; also called W.English...

This is from 1894...




2 companies with the same/similar name, but one dealing in specialist clothing and tailoring etc...and the other a funeral director (for which James Kelly worked in 1921)


Is there a possible link between them?

Or no connection?


Lots to ponder




RD

Good work RD.

It’s a pity that Kelly was so vague about this period of his life when he was questioned after his return to Broadmoor in 1927. Whether that was deliberate or simply the result of his disordered mind can’t be known but he certainly would have needed to earn money and he often took work where he could find it which would have included doing work outside of his own trade. Maybe he did take some casual work at the Funeral Director’s at around the time of the murders using one of his aliases? (he had several) I can only suggest that his trade as an upholsterer might have made him useful for work on the linings of coffin’s perhaps unless there was other types of work that he could have done for them? Any connection that he might have had with that company might have allowed him to go back to them years later for more permanent work after he’d been discharged by Broadmoor in 1907?

[Herlock Sholmes]

When Kelly was in Liverpool he tended to use the names ‘Jim Kelly’ or ‘Jim Allen’ but he preferred to use ‘John Miller’ when he was away from there. Massive speculation warning - but as he was roaming around doing what he wanted to do (let’s say ‘behaving badly’ in whatever way) maybe he liked to use the name of the father that he hated for abandoning him and his mother?

[The Rookie Detective]

Good work RD.

It’s a pity that Kelly was so vague about this period of his life when he was questioned after his return to Broadmoor in 1927. Whether that was deliberate or simply the result of his disordered mind can’t be known but he certainly would have needed to earn money and he often took work where he could find it which would have included doing work outside of his own trade. Maybe he did take some casual work at the Funeral Director’s at around the time of the murders using one of his aliases? (he had several) I can only suggest that his trade as an upholsterer might have made him useful for work on the linings of coffin’s perhaps unless there was other types of work that he could have done for them? Any connection that he might have had with that company might have allowed him to go back to them years later for more permanent work after he’d been discharged by Broadmoor in 1907?

Thank you Herlock


I only started looking based on you starting this excellent thread, so it's entirely you who has been the catalyst for me to have a look myself based on your initial efforts and energy on this particular suspect.

I have found out the names of the Coachmen who drove for the Company; so we know at least that he wasn't involved with the driving side at least.

I would imagine however that he would certainly be involved with the visual presentation of the funeral carriage; from the internal fabric fittings to the maintenance of the carriage; which I imagine would have needed to have looked pristine.

I would hazard a guess that he may have also dealt with the internal presentation of the coffin; although I believe his primary role would have focused more on the Carriage itself.


It is almost a given that he would have come into contact with recently deceased corpses on a daily basis, which is what may have led him further down the past of mental instability.


I have looked at his John Miller signature and wondered how close it was to his original James Kelly signature.


Do we have other examples of his signature?



RD

[Herlock Sholmes]

Thank you Herlock


I only started looking based on you starting this excellent thread, so it's entirely you who has been the catalyst for me to have a look myself based on your initial efforts and energy on this particular suspect.

I have found out the names of the Coachmen who drove for the Company; so we know at least that he wasn't involved with the driving side at least.

I would imagine however that he would certainly be involved with the visual presentation of the funeral carriage; from the internal fabric fittings to the maintenance of the carriage; which I imagine would have needed to have looked pristine.

I would hazard a guess that he may have also dealt with the internal presentation of the coffin; although I believe his primary role would have focused more on the Carriage itself.


It is almost a given that he would have come into contact with recently deceased corpses on a daily basis, which is what may have led him further down the past of mental instability.


I have looked at his John Miller signature and wondered how close it was to his original James Kelly signature.


Do we have other examples of his signature?



RD

I haven’t seen any. I don’t have Tully’s book on me but I seem to recall him suggesting some similarities with some of the letters. Tully saw Kelly’s writing in the Broadmoor records I believe.

[The Rookie Detective]

When Kelly was in Liverpool he tended to use the names ‘Jim Kelly’ or ‘Jim Allen’ but he preferred to use ‘John Miller’ when he was away from there. Massive speculation warning - but as he was roaming around doing what he wanted to do (let’s say ‘behaving badly’ in whatever way) maybe he liked to use the name of the father that he hated for abandoning him and his mother?

That is fascinating.

As you know, I love all the speculation stuff lol!

James Kelly
John Miller
Jack Ripper


Close, but only a coincidental cigar in sight


haha!



RD

[Herlock Sholmes]

That is fascinating.

As you know, I love all the speculation stuff lol!

James Kelly
John Miller
Jack Ripper


Close, but only a coincidental cigar in sight


haha!



RD

Tully also talks about the upholsterer’s ’ripping chisel’ and the letter where the sending mentions using his ‘trade name.’ He also suggests that the second weapon supposedly used on Tabram might have been a ripping chisel. Speculation of course.

[Kattrup]

Interesting find, RD.
The attachments don't work for me but from what you've written it seems you've got him.

I would imagine a company that has been established since 1817 would have some kind of historic record system including personnel files from all previous employees.

Ah, for the optimism of youth!

[jerryd]

Hi all


This is fascinating...



In the 1921 census (June 19th) James Kelly is living at 16 King Henry's Walk, in Mildmay, Islington, north London.

It appears his residence was located just south of the 'North London line' that ran through 'Mildmay Park' train station.

Mildmay Park train station opened in 1880 but closed in 1934.


But, it's not his residence that is the most interesting, nor his proximity to the train line...it's his occupation...






RD

Hi RD.

Actually the residence is of some interest in my book. A few years ago I was researching Joseph Lawende and Joseph Hyam Levy (two of the Mitre Square witnesses), and discovered they lived houses apart from each other later in life on Mildmay Road, Mildmay Park, Canonbury (Lawende at #140 and Levy at #124). Joseph Lawende died in 1925 at an address on Mildmay Road. Levy died in 1914 on the same road.

Below is a small map showing the proximity of Mildmay Road to King Henry's Walk. Small world,eh?

[The Rookie Detective]

Hi RD.

Actually the residence is of some interest in my book. A few years ago I was researching Joseph Lawende and Joseph Hyam Levy (two of the Mitre Square witnesses), and discovered they lived houses apart from each other later in life on Mildmay Road, Mildmay Park, Canonbury (Lawende at #140 and Levy at #124). Joseph Lawende died in 1925 at an address on Mildmay Road. Levy died in 1914 on the same road.

Below is a small map showing the proximity of Mildmay Road to King Henry's Walk. Small world,eh?

Hi Jerry


That is intriguing


The John Miller who I believe is James Kelly was living at no.16 King Henry's Walk in 1921

I don't have a map with the correct house numbers at the time but I believe no.16 was just south of the train line; ergo, nearer to the Mildmay Rd end of the street.

It would be interesting to see if Lawende lived towards the Eastern end of Mildmay Road because it would be close to the junction with King Henry's Walk.

Based on the map, they may have lived around a 2 minute walk from one another.


Imagine a scenario whereby Kelly feels compelled to keep an eye out for Lawrende; concerned about the man who once identified him?


Conjecture of course, but I love a bit of conjecture haha!



RD