Kelly's Home Office files

[judyj]

James Kelly

Hi again DW
I'm a believer in what isn't obvious is more telling than what is.
To me the fact that he could not be traced tells me alot about him, certainly he wasn't as insane as thought. He outsmarted the police force, and was on the run for many years or was he? Maybe he was in London all along. But I have to go back to my previous comments that if he did have STD, which I believe he did, the obvious place to have picked it up was physical contact with prostitutes. He was young, good looking and when I look at the picture of him, he strikes me as having a sailor look. I am sure he was out for revenge and got it., some witnesses described a man with a sailor look.

It's apparent you do not agree with any of the points I have made, but I do appreciate your imput. Tell me who your fav suspect is.
regards julie

[DVV]

Hello Julie, it is not that I necessarily disagree with your points, but valid or not, they do not make a good suspect.
We don't know his whereabouts in 1888.
We don't know JtR's motive, and syphilis is an old chestnut. You'll find plenty examples of prostitutes killers who didn't have this disease.
As for the sailor, Lawende didn't properly see a sailor, it was just the cape - something that any labourer could wear.

[DVV]

Sorry for calling you Julie, Judy...
My eyes are no more what they used to be.

[judyj]

James Kelly

Hi DW

No need to apologize, I am Julia actually, but I get called Julia, Julie and Judy.
My user name is judy

regards
julie

[judyj]

DW
The sailor look was a hat if I'm not mistaken, and it was an older female
that made that comment.
regards

[DVV]

DW
The sailor look was a hat if I'm not mistaken, and it was an older female
that made that comment.
regards

Hello Judy. I beg your pardon ?

[Roy Corduroy]

My understanding is that James Tulley was eventually given access to the Home Office file despite it being closed until 2030...."Finally came the magical moment when file number H.O. 144/10064 was placed in my eager hands. It contained ....." (page xiii of his book). Instructions had been given that no photocopies of pages could be made.

Prince I think you are right. I have changed my mind after reading Tully's book more and also discussing this with Wolf V. The author did access the HO file, and used parts of it in his book, such as when Kelly tried to turn himself in to the British Consul in New Orleans in 1896.

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A view of his birthplace in Preston, Lancashire. He "was born on April 20th, 1860, in No. 43, St Mary's Street. A small terraced house, it stood in the shadow of the forbidding Preston Prison -" Tully pg 2





Photos from this site

[judyj]

Kellys Home Office Files

In the thread on the Jack The Ripper In America documentary, Roy Courderoy said the following

'This is the first I've heard of such a file, presumably because I've not had the benefit of reading Prisoner 1167. I suppose the answer is given there, but I'll not likely have access to the book before the end of the year and so I'd like to ask: why were Kelly's records sealed for so long? And is there any idea what those seventeen redacted items were?

Hi Roy

I cannot answer this question with any proven facts,however, James Tully's book outlines interesting facts and questions concerning same. Refer to Chapter 11, COVER UP starting at P. 341.

The book is a great read and was my 1st introduction to James Kelly, who became my suspect immediately. I've read many books on Jack over the years both well done, convincing and otherwise, however I have never been swayed from Kelly as my # 1 suspect. I am thrilled to see his name being investigated again. The book details James movements over the years, however there are not concrete facts of his actual whereabouts during the time of the murders,
placing him there or not.
With this taken into consideration, the comments made by many that his whereabouts were not known during this this time, in which many dismissed him as a suspect,is not taking into consideration that if you cannot prove he was there you certainly cannot prove that he wasn't.
His unknown whereabouts should definately not dismiss him as a viable suspect,quite the contrary.

The book offers interesting items re dollar worth at time of his entrance to Broadmoor ( 11,000 lbs in today's value) as well as two particular names associated with his escape:

John Morrison, considered to be his best friend, who was paid 5 lbs to hold for him in case of emergency, and I believe he was more or less the trustee of James estate, through James solicitors. Hopefully I am stating this fact correctly.

And George Stratton, an attendant, who was apparently instrumental in aiding his escape (explained in detail in the book)

James Kelly died 7:15 AM, Sept 17th, 1929 in Block 3 of Broadmoor.

I have had the book for some time. If there are questions that I can possibly answer for you, referencing the book, I would be glad to do so.

Regards Julie

[Roy Corduroy]

Good afternoon Julie,

John Morrison, considered to be his best friend, who was paid 5 lbs to hold for him in case of emergency, and I believe he was more or less the trustee of James estate, through James solicitors. Hopefully I am stating this fact correctly.

John Morrison also wrote a book about James Kelly. I think you mean John Merritt, a London friend of James Kelly who was given 5 pounds. Police questioned him after the escape.

Again, in regards to the Home Office file, yes I think author James Tully accessed it. And used parts of it in his book Prisoner 1167. Previously I had thought otherwise but changed my mind. Like you Julie I find him an interesting suspect. And one that no policeman would have mentioned in memoirs, he being escaped from the Home Office flagship prison/mental ward at the time.

Roy

[Bridewell]

Just as an aside - not evidence - he had the same birthday as Adolf Hitler.

Regards, Bridewell.

[judyj]

Good afternoon Julie,



John Morrison also wrote a book about James Kelly. I think you mean John Merritt, a London friend of James Kelly who was given 5 pounds. Police questioned him after the escape.

Again, in regards to the Home Office file, yes I think author James Tully accessed it. And used parts of it in his book Prisoner 1167. Previously I had thought otherwise but changed my mind. Like you Julie I find him an interesting suspect. And one that no policeman would have mentioned in memoirs, he being escaped from the Home Office flagship prison/mental ward at the time.

Roy

Hi Roy
That was a typing error only, John Merritt is 100% correct, I was obviously thinking of John Morrison ( the 1st to bring Kelly to forward as a suspect) when
typing and inadvertently typed his name.
Tks for correcting, I didn't notice it when I previewed my post.
Regards julie

[Roy Corduroy]

Walter Lamb

Hi Julie,

The author wrote another friend of James Kelly was Walter Lamb of 37 Collingwood Street, near Buck's Row (Durward St). The star is the site of the Nichols murder.



A Lamb family in the 1881 census at 19 Collingwood. Walter Lamb was two years younger than James Kelly. This part of Bethnal Green reaches almost to Whitechapel there.



Note Shop for occupation of wife Emma. George Lamb had a shop on that street in the 1882 directory.

[Psych_Nurse]

JK

Hi

I'm new to the forums so unsure of the ettiquette! Is it good to re-start an old thread or not?!

I've read Prisoner 1167 and after the second reading a couple of years after buying it I do think JK is a very likely JTR suspect.

I don't think that syphillis is an 'old chestnut(!)' at all. The final syphillitic stage, the tertiary stage, can closely resemble a psychosis, in that people can lose all sense of reality. As there was no available treatment in the late 1800s the tertiary stage would eventually have been reached and I think that the behaviour displayed by Kelly as described in Prisoner 1167 strongly suggests that he was paranoid and psychotic.

I also think that as JK was such a seasoned traveller and also very resourceful, as evidenced by the amount of time he was on the run from Broadmoor, this would have allowed him to flit in and out of London, which maybe explains why the killer was never caught.

I am open minded regarding suspects but JK is as likely as any other I guess!

[Phil H]

Welcome Psych_Nurse.

As far as I am aware you have done exactly the right thing - re-using old threads is regarded as vastly preferable to proliferating new ones.

Good to see you.

Phil H

[johns]

I must admit that I've never understood the view that restarting old threads is wrong.