If Jill had Multiple Personality Disorder...

[persuingauthor]

Do you think if a woman had MPD it would be possible for her to physically do everything the Ripper did?

[lynn cates]

ladies

Hello PA. Welcome to the boards.

The throat cuttings were particularly deep and savage and required a good amount of force. Also, some of the ladies may have been a bit difficult to subdue and required to be "handled."

On the other hand, we DO have lady weightlifters.

Possible? Yes.

Cheers.
LC

[Ally]

Seeing "persuing" next to the word "author" makes my head hurt.

[Jenni Shelden]

I see no reason why a working class Victorian woman would not be able to do everything JtR did, with or without MPD

Jenni

[richardnunweek]

Hi.
The word ''overkill'' is apt in all of the murders ranging from Tabram to Kelly, that is if one either eliminates Stride as a victim, or takes the disturbed view..
A lot of women who kill, use ''overkill'' using a knife or gun, multiple stabs, or multiple shot cases are frequent.
Of course men do the same, but we cannot eliminate a woman being the ''Ripper'' although there are many minus points.
Regards Richard.

[Errata]

Firstly, any woman regardless of mental condition could do what Jack the Ripper did. Certain parts would be harder, but not impossible. Secondly, Multiple Personality Disorder doesn't exist. Disassociative Identity Disorder is the name of what you are thinking of, and it is not quite the same. It's also incredibly rare, if it exists at all, and most people thought to have DID are actually psychotic. However DID has a lot to do with social norms, the victims having experienced abuse or incidents well outside societies definition of normal. Because social norm were different in Victorian England, and impoverished children especially had no expectation of being treated in a certain way, it is highly unlikely the disease ever even presented before the the early 20th century.

[persuingauthor]

Firstly, any woman regardless of mental condition could do what Jack the Ripper did. Certain parts would be harder, but not impossible. Secondly, Multiple Personality Disorder doesn't exist. Disassociative Identity Disorder is the name of what you are thinking of, and it is not quite the same. It's also incredibly rare, if it exists at all, and most people thought to have DID are actually psychotic. However DID has a lot to do with social norms, the victims having experienced abuse or incidents well outside societies definition of normal. Because social norm were different in Victorian England, and impoverished children especially had no expectation of being treated in a certain way, it is highly unlikely the disease ever even presented before the the early 20th century.

Multiple Personality Disorder was renamed to be Dissociative Identity Disorder. It is rare, and it is in fact quite possible for this mental disorder to have been around at the time of the ripper.

[persuingauthor]

Hi.
The word ''overkill'' is apt in all of the murders ranging from Tabram to Kelly, that is if one either eliminates Stride as a victim, or takes the disturbed view..
A lot of women who kill, use ''overkill'' using a knife or gun, multiple stabs, or multiple shot cases are frequent.
Of course men do the same, but we cannot eliminate a woman being the ''Ripper'' although there are many minus points.
Regards Richard.

Thank you for bringing the point of overkill up. I never even thought of that.

[ChrisGeorge]

I see no reason why a working class Victorian woman would not be able to do everything JtR did, with or without MPD

Jenni

Of course as in all sections of society, there were strong and muscular people and less physical types among the working class poor of London. Catherine Eddowes, for example, does not look to have been a strong woman from the mortuary photographs. Still, one thinks of the stereotypical fishwife or washerwoman who might have been strong. The convicted murderer Mary Pearcey, executed December 23, 1890, comes to mind as having been a physically strong woman. Sir Melville Macnaghten wrote of her, "I have never seen a woman of stronger physique.... her nerves were as ironcast as her body." See the Casebook page on Jill the Ripper.

Best regards

Chris

[miss marple]

There were many strong working class women. Hannah Cullwick for example the housemaid, adored by Arthur Munby for her strength .Domestic workers were usually very fit. Vast numbers of women worked in the coal and iron industries and could carry heavy loads. There were strong women on the music hall such as Vulcana. Women were also poisoners and murderers, but in very small numbers.

The is not about the strength of women, but who is the most probable suspect for a serious of misogynistic murders of prostitutes in the East End,
All the most probable suspects are men. The evidence of a female involvement is nil, on a parr with Van Gogh.
I know in these politically correct days, women have to be the same as men, but the majority of crimes of violence are still committed by men on women. Most of the serial killers are men working alone. Hindley and Rose West worked with their male partners.
I think we need to reduce the number of suspects, not keep adding random unlikelys like 19th century artists, royalty etc.

Poor Mary Pearcy, a very domestic crime of passion by a jealous woman. She was quite pretty and slightly built. I think the rarity of the crime, a physical attack on a mother and the suffocating of the child, let to the opinion that she was some endowed with superhuman strength for a woman. She also possibly had epilepsy. She was a dramatic and emotional woman but appeared to be in a trance like state after the murder. This state is possibly why she was described by Macnaughton, a man who's judgement I do not trust.

Miss Marple

[Errata]

I can actually think of any number of scenarios in which a woman could have been the Ripper. None of them particularly require mental illness however. Certainly not to that degree. Delusions, obsession sure. But any major dysfunction would have gotten in the way.

[persuingauthor]

I can actually think of any number of scenarios in which a woman could have been the Ripper. None of them particularly require mental illness however. Certainly not to that degree. Delusions, obsession sure. But any major dysfunction would have gotten in the way.

Why would you think it would get in the way?

[Errata]

Why would you think it would get in the way?

Well, firstly the loss of control inherent in mental illness is problematic for a serial killer. There was some concentration involved in these murders, and wandering wits would have been an impediment.

Secondly, everyone feared the mad. The reason we have all of these possible witnesses who saw various men with the victims is because no one insane was nearby. Something akin to watching an Agathe Christie play with an elephant in a spotted tutu wandering on and off stage. If someone asks you about the play, you might mention the leading man, but the elephant is going to be the topic of conversation. Anyone acting in any suspicious or inexplicable fashion is going to be watched like a hawk.

Thirdly, mental illness is exhausting. I can't even describe how much energy it takes just to stay together, to stay normal. And this is an era with no medication and no therapy. Anyone with a mental illness is going to be white knuckling every day.

Lastly, the types of mental illness that have the capability of making someone into a serial killer when they would rather not be one are pretty antithetical to the idea of not getting caught. If they are "out of their minds" when they kill, they will likely be that way afterwards as well. Which means they don't exercise any subtlety. Don't clean up, Don't change clothes, walk into the family breakfast covered with gore from the previous night.. that sort of thing.

Which is not to say that a killer like that couldn't have a personality disorder, probably did. But it wouldn't be anything either super noticeable or new, because they would have been locked up as soon as they started presenting with symptoms. Or put out on the street where the cops would pick them up and put the in an asylum.

[Barnaby]

I find it highly unlikely that JTR - male or female - suffered from DID. It is extremely rare today, and keep in mind that today the prevalence rate of the disorder is much higher than it was in the past. DID is poorly understood and probably is partially the result of suggestions from well-intentioned therapists.