Hyam Hyams: Portrait of a Suspect

[mariab]

Yes, Tracey is quite spectacular, and a great researcher.
Chris,
The link between the Levys and the Kozminskis is discussed in the beginning of the thread. You just have to start from the beginning (on page 1) and you won't miss it. It's right before I started joking about the late David Radka's theory, and everybody who knew him butted in about him. Just one post behind the first mention of David Radka – you can't miss it!

[Chris]

The link between the Levys and the Kozminskis is discussed in the beginning of the thread. You just have to start from the beginning (on page 1) and you won't miss it.

I do see the suggestion that Aaron Kozminski's brother lived at 2 Hutchinson Street, but unfortunately I don't think that's correct. But thanks for pointing it out, anyway.

[mariab]

It's NOT correct? Very interesting. Also the information posted on the same thread about Jacob Levy having been acquitted for sexual assault at age 16 is apparently not correct, as Debra just looked it up and she says that the assault occurred in 1873 by a 43 year old soldier with just one arm and one leg.(!)
I can't look it up right now, as I'm a bit ill in bed (taking antibiotics), and need to eat something very urgently...
(And SO sorry again to misdirect this thread out of subject.)

[tji]

Yes, Tracey is quite spectacular, and a great researcher.

Why thank you maria - I will take what I can get even if I almost had to twist your arm lol

It's NOT correct? Very interesting


No Maria, that was me getting confused, there was a tenuous link a few year back that I believe was disproven, if memory serves me right Joseph Levy sponsored a family called Kominski, who then changed their name to Koski but it was a separate family to the Kozminski's.

Also the information posted on the same thread about Jacob Levy having been acquitted for sexual assault at age 16 is apparently not correct, as Debra just looked it up and she says that the assault occurred in 1873 by a 43 year old soldier with just one arm and one leg.(!)

Interesting do you know if Debra will be posting the info on the boards at all.

Get well soon

Tj

[mariab]

So it's you indeed, Tracey, drop the mask!
Here's a transcript from Lloyd's Weekly, Feb 15 1874 (curtesy of Debra Aliff):
SERIOUS CHARGE AGAINST AN OLD SOLDIER
Jacob Levy, 43, described as a cigar maker, was charged with indecenly assaulting a girl under the age of 12 years-the prisoner, in his defence, said he had won the Victoria Cross at Delhi and while in the army had gone through the Afghanistan, Burmese, and Crimean campaigns, and had been engaged at Delhi and Lucknow. He had lost a leg and a hand and was on board the Blue Jacket when that vessel caught fire. He entirely denied the charge and it appeared that the girl had not given details of any complaint until 36 hours after the alleged assault.-The jury found the prisoner "Not guilty"and he was discharged.
Thanks for the get well wishes. There's blood coming out of my nose (among else!) right now, so maybe I've caught the Ebola virus?

[Debra A]

Also the information posted on the same thread about Jacob Levy having been acquitted for sexual assault at age 16 is apparently not correct, as Debra just looked it up and she says that the assault occurred in 1873 by a 43 year old soldier with just one arm and one leg.(!)

Interesting do you know if Debra will be posting the info on the boards at all.

Get well soon

Tj

Tracy, I sent you a pm on Jtrforums earlier on. I hadn't realised when I gave Maria the details that you had recently posted about the sexual assault to your thread over there.

[mariab]

It's probably my mistake, but I hadn't realised that tji was Tracy – until she spilled!

[tji]

Hi Debs

Tracy, I sent you a pm on Jtrforums earlier on. I hadn't realised when I gave Maria the details that you had recently posted about the sexual assault to your thread over there.[/QUOTE]

I have got your pm Debs, well done and thanks for the info, that has bugged me and Jimi for a long time!!! I will post the info on the Jacob Ley threads, if that is ok with yourself.

Tj

[tji]

Hi Maria

B]So it's you indeed, Tracey, drop the mask![/B]


There was no intention to deceive - I assumed that as both threads on both boards were almost identical and me and Jimi are mentioned on both that people would realize I am the same person on both boards. The only real difference is I used my initials on casebook and my real name - Tracy I'anson on Jtr forums

Tj

[Jimi]

So it's you indeed, Tracey, drop the mask!

Hi All
Knew it. It`s really Apwolf!!!!!!
Keep Well
Jimi

[tji]

Hi Jimi

Knew it. It`s really Apwolf!!!!!!

Poor Ap wolf again, really??!! lol
Poor bloke is going to get a complex!!!

Tj

[mariab]

Tracy,
I was joking! I never thought it was your intention to deceive!

[tji]

Hi

I thought I would have a look at the info you have given and have a go myself and I have come up with a puzzling problem myself, I am not sure that the Hyam Hyams being quoted as being in Colney Hatch is the correct one. (Whose family lived in Mitre Street, Solomon and Fanny as parents.)

The information I have found is as follows: -

I have posted the census on Hyam Hyams earlier on in the thread from 1851 - 1891. A quick reminder is
Solomon Hyams father
Fanny Hyams mother
Morris Hyams son
Hyam/Hymey Hyams son
Barney Hyams son
George Hyams son
Clara Hyams daughter
Jane Hyams/Abrahams daughter
John Abrahams son in law.

Hyam is with them until the 1891 census. This I believe is the Hyam Hyams who marries the Rose Hyams you mentioned. Her maiden name is Rose Aarons born 1855 bishopgate to parents Solomon Aarons and Rosa/e Isaacs.

In 1891 at 232 Jubille Street as you say Hyam is there with Rose, which isn't so unlikely, he could be in the asylum and his wife still class him as living there. However in 1901 we have him at 27 Floreston Street still a fruiterer living with Rose and his family. Would his wife still be saying her husband lived with her after another ten years had passed?

My reason for believing the Hyam Hyams from Mitre Street who is said to have gone into the asylum is this man and not the one in Colney hatch....his children's names.

We have Hyam Hyams Head married 43 fruiterer (green) o/a London
Rose Hyams Wife Married 44 London
[I]Fanny[/I] Hyams daughter Single 19 cigar maker worker Whitechapel
Solomon Hyams son single 17 Engineers ? worker London
Morris Hyams son single 15 errand boy worker London
Rose Hyams daughter 13 London
Sarah Hyams daughter 9 London
John Abrahams nephew 16 harness maker worker Aldgate

So this Hyam Hyams has named his children after the mother, father, brother and also has a nephew staying with the same name as his brother in law, as the Hyam Hyams who grew up in Mitre Street.
So I may be wrong but in my opinion this makes it unlikely that the person in Colney Hatch is the Hyam Hyams that grew up in Mitre Street

I think over the years info on different Hyam Hyams have been accidentally meshed into one person.


I think it is more likely the Hyam Hyams married to Rachel living at 40 New Street in 1891 (2 children William and Kate) is the Hyams that went to the asylum.

Tj

[Chris]

I thought I would have a look at the info you have given and have a go myself and I have come up with a puzzling problem myself, I am not sure that the Hyam Hyams being quoted as being in Colney Hatch is the correct one. (Whose family lived in Mitre Street, Solomon and Fanny as parents.)

It looks to me as though you may be right.

And if that is not the right Hyam in the 1881 census, then the missing marriage to Rachel/Sarah might have taken place earlier. There is a marriage of a Hyman Hymans in the City of London in the third quarter of 1875, and one of the two possible spouses is Rachel Garcia. And then there is a couple named Hyman Hyams and Rachel, both born in Aldgate and roughly the right ages, with children 5 and younger, at 45 Varden Street in the 1881 census. There is a bit of a discrepancy with Sarah's statement in 1911 that she had been married 30 years, but it may be worth looking into.

[Chris]

I think there's no doubt that Tracy is right that the Colney Hatch patient Hyam Hyams is a different man from the son of Solomon and Fanny (nee Levy).

The death of a Hyam Hyams aged 78 was registered at Hackney in the last quarter of 1933. He was buried on 11 December at East Ham Cemetery, and his death was announced in the Jewish Chronicle of 15 December as follows:
HYAMS. - on Saturday, the 9th of December, after a very short illness, Hyam (Peter) Hyams, beloved brother of Mrs. Addie Abrahams and Mrs. Clara Boyles. Shiva at 36, Woodside Park-road, N.12.

Clara Boyles is a very uncommon name, and searches of the 1901 and 1911 censuses show only two women of this name who could have been the sister of a man born around 1855 - one born and living in Warwickshire, and the other aged 32 in 1901 and born in Aldgate, who was the wife of Henry R. Boyles. For some reason I haven't been able to find her marriage, but according to the 1911 census she was married around 1897.

As for Addie Abrahams, there was another announcement in the Jewish Chronicle of 9 December 1932, of the engagement of Peter, youngest son of Mrs. and the late Mr. N. Abrahams of 36, Woodside Park-road, North Finchley. Evidently the late Mr N. Abrahams was the Nathan Abrahams whose death aged 68 had been registered at Hackney in the second quarter of 1926(as Nathaniel), who had been buried on 6 June at East Ham Cemetery, and whose death had been announced in the Jewish Chronicle of 11 June as follows:
ABRAHAMS.-On the 4th of June, at 13, Gore road, E.9, Nathan (Naty) Abrahams, beloved husband of Addie, and father of Alfred, John, Sol, Lewis, Alec, Peter, May and Sally.

Given these details there is no difficulty in tracing the family in earlier records. Nathan Abrahams and Adelaide Hyams were married in the City of London in the first quarter of 1881. In 1881 they were living at 1 Mitre Square, in 1891 at 27 Mitre Street (with the wife's name given as "Annie") and in 1901 at 12 Floreston Street ("Ada"). In 1911 she was back to "Adelaide." Her birthplace is given as the City of London (specifically Aldgate in 1901), and the age of birth indicated is around 1862 or 1863.

I think there can be no doubt that this Hyam Hyams (b. c. 1855) and his two sisters Addie/Adelaide (b. c. 1862-3 in Aldgate) and Clara (b. c. 1869 in Aldgate) are the children of Solomon and Fanny Hyams of the same names who appear in the census records (the only slight discrepancy is that Clara Boyles's date of birth is indicated to be 1-2 years later than that of Clara Hyams). This is particularly so in view of the fact that Nathan and Adelaide Abrahams were living in 1891 next door but one to the former family home in Mitre Street.

For further confirmation, in 1901 Nathan and Adelaide had in their household a niece, Kate Abrahams, aged 14, a tailoress, born in Aldgate. The other Hyams sister Jane, who had married John Abrahams, had a daughter who fits exactly - though that daughter does appear in her parents' household in the same census. Presumably she was entered twice.

The other interesting thing is that Nathan Abrahams and Adelaide had a son John who was born c. 1886, who would match the nephew John Abrahams who - as Tracy pointed out above - appears in the household of Hyam Hyams and Rose in 1901. (This John also came close to appearing twice in the census, as his name was written in his parents' return but then deleted.)

In summary, it does seem clear that Hyam Hyams the son of Solomon and Fanny (nee Levy) did not die until 1933, and was therefore not the same Hyam Hyams who was at Colney Hatch. It does seem likely that he was the man who married Rose Aarons and appeared as a fruiterer in the 1891 and 1901 censuses. That could be definitely confirmed by the marriage certificate, which would give his father's name.