Identifying Hutchinson

[Debra A]

I wonder if the George Hutchinson found in workhouse (Groom) could be the one that married Margaret Stevens (also a groom on wedding certificate) ? Both very similar age. Was it you Debra that found he had left his wife?
Pat.....

No, not me, Pat.

[Amanda]

Hi Debra,

Just wondered if you'd ever looked at a George Hutchinson that married in 1887?
I don't have an occupation for him yet.

Amanda

[Paddy]

I wonder if the George Hutchinson found in workhouse (Groom) could be the one that married Margaret Stevens (also a groom on wedding certificate) ? Both very similar age. Was it you Debra that found he had left his wife?
Pat.....

[Debra A]

This might interest you:
http://forum.casebook.org/showpost.p...postcount=2392

Hi Debra there is a George Thomas on the Workhouse admissions in Southwark around 1903, born same time as the Groom I found on there......Wonder if they are both the same chap....I was interested that the one I found was walking around all the night before (just like the Hutch)

Thanks
Pat....

Hi Pat,
Thanks. As it happens, i'm currently writing an article about certain females and their use of casual wards but one of the things I noticed in the Mint St male casual register during the research was the huge number of men, labourers, who traveled from Romford (and nearby areas) one night, slept in the Southwark casual ward and then were on their travels a couple of days later to another place outside London, or on to Romford if they'd come from elsewhere, tramping, looking for work. I think it is possible George Hutchinson was of this vagrant, casual ward class, you may be on to something.

PS I disregarded the watch stealer as he was very rarely Hutchinson, mainly Hutchison in the records I found for him so i can't see him signing a police statement as Hutchinson.

[Sam Flynn]

I am almost convinced by your great presentation.

Thanks, Paddy. My pleasure.

Allowing for small changes as you have ie: the formation of the o in George and the upward slope after n at the end

Letters can vary even within a document, particularly when it comes to the flourishes at the end of a word or name. They can also be thrown slightly off course by being forced to write in a cramped space - such as the "sign here" section of a form, the little box on the back of a credit card or at the bottom of a page. Where such circumstances prevail, it's hardly surprising if some letters - particularly "outliers" - show a small amount of variation. That's why I provided a number of samples from the "meat" of the signatures I obtained.

leaving of the H in Hutchinson and the lack of upper loop in the h in middle of Hutchinson, wouldnt the following from 1911 census almost fit too?

These others might be reasonable matches as well, and I have looked into some of them ("Lambeth George" especially, see here), but the evidence for Toppy remains the most compelling for a number of reasons.

For me, it's a combination of factors, not just the signatures - but they help! So, for example, I'd consider whether any rival candidate:

- is known to have a family story that links them to the Miller's Court murder, whether we believe it or not;

- was old, or rather young enough, in 1888 to have been employed as a groom;

- was of the right social background to have been trolling around London slums in 1888;

- had definite connections with the East End.

Toppy ticks all those boxes.

[Paddy]

To Debra

This might interest you:
http://forum.casebook.org/showpost.p...postcount=2392

Hi Debra there is a George Thomas on the Workhouse admissions in Southwark around 1903, born same time as the Groom I found on there......Wonder if they are both the same chap....I was interested that the one I found was walking around all the night before (just like the Hutch)

Thanks
Pat....

[richardnunweek]

Hi
Hutchinson was a lookout for Jack...
In the slim chance that he was, I would submit, that he had no idea that he was a lookout for a killer.
Regards Richard.

[Amanda]

Plumbers obviously have a much more military bearing than a Naval trainee.

Given that training,a personal groom is more likely than a horse attendant.

The BIG clues are the unexplained child in his care and the push by Phillips for a pardon.

Hutchinson was a lookout for Jack the Ripper.

Have to agree with you DJA.

Amanda

[DJA]

Hi.
Surely we are not about to adopt the obvious conclusion that Hutchinson the witness was Topping..
I have maintained this since I joined Casebook..
Soon we will have a choice to make,
Was Topping being truthful...or was he fabricating.?
Regards Richard.

Plumbers obviously have a much more military bearing than a Naval trainee.

Given that training,a personal groom is more likely than a horse attendant.

The BIG clues are the unexplained child in his care and the push by Phillips for a pardon.

Hutchinson was a lookout for Jack the Ripper.

[richardnunweek]

Hi.
Surely we are not about to adopt the obvious conclusion that Hutchinson the witness was Topping..
I have maintained this since I joined Casebook..
Soon we will have a choice to make,
Was Topping being truthful...or was he fabricating.?
Regards Richard.

[Debra A]

Hi John sorry dont understand? Is there another thread on the watch stealer Hutchinson then?
Forgive me as I tend to take things literally, so if its a joke I wouldn't see it.

Pat.....

Hi Pat

This might interest you:

http://forum.casebook.org/showpost.php?p=236979&postcount=2392

[Wickerman]

I can see someone is confusing threads..

Hi John sorry dont understand? Is there another thread on the watch stealer Hutchinson then?
Forgive me as I tend to take things literally, so if its a joke I wouldn't see it.

Pat.....

No Pat, my mistake, I apologize.


It is surprising to see Toppy surfacing again after all this time.

[Paddy]

Wickerman

I can see someone is confusing threads..

Hi John sorry dont understand? Is there another thread on the watch stealer Hutchinson then?
Forgive me as I tend to take things literally, so if its a joke I wouldn't see it.

Pat.....

[Paddy]

Even this one?

One of my past thoughts was that this Police Constable Harry Huchinson PC661A who lived in London and was in the police at time of the murders might have been George.

So I am 70% but not 100% convinced.
Pat.......

[Paddy]

Toppy

Trust what you can see with your own eyes, and ignore potentially biased interpretations and opinions, my own included. Let the evidence speak for itself.

With all due respect Sam. I am almost convinced by your great presentation.
Allowing for small changes as you have ie: the formation of the o in George and the upward slope after n at the end, leaving of the H in Hutchinson and the lack of upper loop in the h in middle of Hutchinson, wouldnt the following from 1911 census almost fit too? One is possibly your one?
Writing seemed to be so similar in those days.
Respect
Pat