A closer look at George Hutchinson

[Sunny Delight]

Kelly was a widow, yet she lived with Barnet, Kelly told Vanturney she was married.

I'm pretty sure you know this is not an issue.



All given times were estimates, you know that. The locals timed everything by the quarter-hour chimes, unless they could see the Spitalfields clock.
"About 3.00" covers 2:55 to 3:05, and a lot can happen in 10 minutes.

So what are you saying? That Mrs Kennedy was not actually referring to her sister when she said sister, she was referring to a friend. Also that her 'sister', who stated she had words with her 'husband' ,was not married but in a partnership with someone referred to as her husband. She was in actual fact a widow. Do you realise how convoluted this is? Yet you seem to suggest I am the one not being serious.

Yes I am aware of the fact a lot can happen in 10 minutes. However we don't know how Mrs Kennedy, if real, fixed the time. Sarah Lewis fixed the time by looking at the Spitalfield clock. She told the Inquest this. Could Kennedy have done the same? Was she positive in her assertion she had seen Kelly. How long did she look? Did she look more than once as Lewis had at the man? What were conditions like? Was she far away?.Her testimony is very very problematic.

[Wickerman]

It may suggest they were soliciting. It does not prove it beyond reasonable doubt. Maybe they were just a couple of girls looking a drink.

One interesting aspect of Mrs Kennedy's statement is that she told the Evening News: "....... In connection with Mrs. Kennedy, it may be mentioned that she and her sister, a widow, were, on Wednesday night last, accosted by a man when they were walking down the Bethnal Green road. It was about eight o'clock when this occurred."

She states her sister was a widow. How could Sarah Lewis have had an argument with her husband- if she was a widow?

Kelly was a widow, yet she lived with Barnet, Kelly told Vanturney she was married.

I'm pretty sure you know this is not an issue.

Lastly how does Mrs Kennedy's statement tie in with George Hutchinson's. He states he left the spot he had been standing at 3am. Mrs Kennedy stated she saw Kelly, another woman and the man who had accosted her previously at the Britannia at 3am. How did Kennedy fix the time? Was it an estimate? Who was the other woman? Did she never come forward? There are too many unanswered questions in relation to Kennedy to place too much faith in her.

All given times were estimates, you know that. The locals timed everything by the quarter-hour chimes, unless they could see the Spitalfields clock.
"About 3.00" covers 2:55 to 3:05, and a lot can happen in 10 minutes.

[Sunny Delight]

I went through this with Ben Holme years ago, and more than once :-)
I compared the statement by Kennedy, with the testimony by Lewis, line for line.
Their statements are not identical, but their experiences on the Wednesday are, and so they should be if they were together.

I don't think the ladies were angels by any means. If you notice, Kennedy tells the reporter the stranger refused to buy them drinks. That suggests to me they were soliciting, even though he entertained their company, he did say he only wanted one of them to come down the ally with him.

As for them being the same, Mrs Kennedy lived at No.2, so as the daughter of a tenant, not only would all the other Millers Court witnesses know her (Cox, Prater, Vanturney, Harvey), but both the rent collector & odd job man (Bowyer), plus Mr & Mrs McCarthy.
So, it is impossible for Kennedy to sit among the other witnesses, and appear in Court posing as this Sarah Lewis from Great Pearl Street.
The idea is a non-starter, I know it was first posed by Phil Sugden, but his research was all by hand, and he did not have the resources at his finger tips like we have today. Sugden was not aware of the Gallaghers at No. 2, nor that Kennedy was their resident daughter.

Kennedy & Lewis were friends, they were together Wednesday evening, Lewis had a row with her hubby Thursday night, and left home to go see her best friend who was still out on the streets. Kennedy came home roughly 30 minutes later.

It may suggest they were soliciting. It does not prove it beyond reasonable doubt. Maybe they were just a couple of girls looking a drink.

One interesting aspect of Mrs Kennedy's statement is that she told the Evening News: "....... In connection with Mrs. Kennedy, it may be mentioned that she and her sister, a widow, were, on Wednesday night last, accosted by a man when they were walking down the Bethnal Green road. It was about eight o'clock when this occurred."

She states her sister was a widow. How could Sarah Lewis have had an argument with her husband- if she was a widow?

Lastly how does Mrs Kennedy's statement tie in with George Hutchinson's. He states he left the spot he had been standing at 3am. Mrs Kennedy stated she saw Kelly, another woman and the man who had accosted her previously at the Britannia at 3am. How did Kennedy fix the time? Was it an estimate? Who was the other woman? Did she never come forward? There are too many unanswered questions in relation to Kennedy to place too much faith in her.

[Wickerman]

If Mrs Kennedy is not Sarah Lewis even then the information that Mrs Kennedy gave is problematic. We dont know under what conditions she spoke to Police. We don't know if the Police confirmed she had ever seen Kelly. She wasn't cross examined on how she knew the time or if she recognised the other woman with Kelly. It may be an intriguing bit of information but for me the stories of Kennedy and Lewis are too similar for it not to be Sarah Lewis using a pseudonym in order to speak with reporters. Maybe she didn't want her name plastered all over the papers. Maybe she had been warned by Police not to jeopardise the investigation by speaking with reporters. Who knows.

I went through this with Ben Holme years ago, and more than once :-)
I compared the statement by Kennedy, with the testimony by Lewis, line for line.
Their statements are not identical, but their experiences on the Wednesday are, and so they should be if they were together.

I don't think the ladies were angels by any means. If you notice, Kennedy tells the reporter the stranger refused to buy them drinks. That suggests to me they were soliciting, even though he entertained their company, he did say he only wanted one of them to come down the ally with him.

As for them being the same, Mrs Kennedy lived at No.2, so as the daughter of a tenant, not only would all the other Millers Court witnesses know her (Cox, Prater, Vanturney, Harvey), but both the rent collector & odd job man (Bowyer), plus Mr & Mrs McCarthy.
So, it is impossible for Kennedy to sit among the other witnesses, and appear in Court posing as this Sarah Lewis from Great Pearl Street.
The idea is a non-starter, I know it was first posed by Phil Sugden, but his research was all by hand, and he did not have the resources at his finger tips like we have today. Sugden was not aware of the Gallaghers at No. 2, nor that Kennedy was their resident daughter.

Kennedy & Lewis were friends, they were together Wednesday evening, Lewis had a row with her hubby Thursday night, and left home to go see her best friend who was still out on the streets. Kennedy came home roughly 30 minutes later.

[Sunny Delight]

The other bit of the puzzle Wick is that, when describing the ‘Botherer’ incident Kennedy said that she was with her sister while Lewis just said that she was with a ‘woman.’ Not that it’s any kind of game changing point of course. Just a little curious.

Finally, and I call this point “There’s A Whole Lotta Bothering Going On”

Mrs. Paumier, a young woman who sells roasted chestnuts at the corner of Widegate street, a thoroughfare about two minutes' walk from the scene of the murder, stated that about twelve o'clock that (Friday) morning, a man dressed like a gentleman came to her and said, "I suppose you have heard about the murder in Dorset street." She replied that she had, whereupon the man grinned and said, "I know more about it than you." He then stared into her face and went down Sandy's row, another narrow thoroughfare which cuts across Widegate street. When he had got some way off, however, he looked back, as if to see whether she was watching him, and then vanished. Mrs. Paumier said the man had a black moustache, was about five feet six inches high, and wore a black silk hat, a black coat, and speckled trousers. He also carried a black shiny bag about a foot in depth and a foot and a half in length. Mrs. Paumier stated further that the same man accosted three young girls whom she knows on Thursday night, and they chaffed him, and asked him what he had in the bag, and he replied, "Something that the ladies don't like." Mrs. Paumier told her story with every appearance of truthfulness. One of the young women she named

Sarah Roney, a girl about 20 years of age, states that she was with two other girls on Thursday night in Brushfield street, which is near Dorset street, when a man, wearing a tall hat and a black coat, and carrying a black bag, came up to her and said, "Will you come with me?" She told him she would not, and asked him what he had in the bag, and he said, "Something the ladies don't like." He then walked away.

So that’s Wednesday, Thursday and Friday.

If and it is a big if, but if this was the same man then I very much doubt he was the Ripper. This was a man who seemed to target women who were in pairs. It may have been someone rather eccentric and a bit of a creep.

If Mrs Kennedy is not Sarah Lewis even then the information that Mrs Kennedy gave is problematic. We dont know under what conditions she spoke to Police. We don't know if the Police confirmed she had ever seen Kelly. She wasn't cross examined on how she knew the time or if she recognised the other woman with Kelly. It may be an intriguing bit of information but for me the stories of Kennedy and Lewis are too similar for it not to be Sarah Lewis using a pseudonym in order to speak with reporters. Maybe she didn't want her name plastered all over the papers. Maybe she had been warned by Police not to jeopardise the investigation by speaking with reporters. Who knows.

[Abby Normal]

Yes, terminology does change over the decades.
Back in the late 19th century 'sister' was a term of endearment females used to introduce a best friend. We find parallels today when some men refer to their best friend as 'brother'.
I use a 19th century dictionary when I suspect there has been a change of meaning, this is how 'sister' was used in the 1800's:





Quite possibly the same 'botherer', on the prowl.

yeah absolutely. ive often wondered if he spotted sarah lewis that night and followed her at distance to millers court. imho hes in the mix even if the later night sightings of mary kelly post aman were incorrect.

his joky taunting ominous sayings to the women remind me alot of marshalls man with stride,,,,you would say anything but your prayers. i think theres a good chance the botherer was the ripper.

[Abby Normal]

I doubt Blotchy was the killer.

Unless he stayed the night, waited for her to stop singing, then went to bed with her, waited for her to sleep and then attacked her while she was sleeping.

Otherwise, the time frame is too wide between Blotchy entering the room, to the point a cry of "oh murder!" is heard by 2 different women around 4am.

I think it's more likely that Sarah Lewis saw the killer standing opposite the court.

He spent the evening stalking his prey; perhaps after having seen her taking Blotchy man into her room.

He waited for his moment for the court to be clear, for the lights to go out in Mary's room and for the court to be in relative silence.

Then, sometime between 3.45-3.55am, he makes his move...

He casually walks down the passageway, turns the corner to stand by the broken window, slowly slips the coat/curtain covering the window and glances in to see Mary sleeping over at the far side of the bed. He then reaches through the window, lifts the latch and unlocks it. He then goes back around to the door, glances up through the alleyway back towards the street to check it's clear and then carefully opens the door and slips quietly into the room. He then closes the door, takes out his knife and then just stands for a few moments, just staring at her sleeping. He then approaches the bed. As he kneels on the bed, she stirs, and he instinctively grabs her and pushes her head down into the bed to muffle her calling out. He then lifts her head and just as she calls out "oh murder!" he savagely cuts her throat as she faces the partition wall.
After she bleeds out, he then takes his coat off, rolls up his shirt sleeves and then moves her body to the middle of the bed, before beginning his post mortem mutilations on her.
He was likely covered in her blood, but after spending around 10 minutes on her, he then stops, regains his senses from his meniacal slashing, stabbing and cutting, catches his breath and then throws some items into the fire. Before he leaves he puts his coat back on and then carefully opens the door to check the coast is clear. He goes around to the window and takes a quick peek through the window to check out his work, and then walks out the court and slips away into the night.

He is not seen and is not heard.

At least, that's what he thinks.

But Sarah Lewis saw him.

She sees him when he is first checking out the court.

He likely leaves and comes back, perhaps to collect his knife in preparation.

...


The killer then possibly attends the public inquest, to see how his work is talked about.

He is then furious that the coroner decides to wrap things up so quickly and make his efforts seems unimportant in comparison to previous murders.

He doesn't get the response he intended.

The inquest closes and then he leaves the building.

Feeling so aggrieved, he then walks straight to the police station and gives an account of standing outside the court.

He now wants to be seen, he demands it.

He gives a false name and presents himself as George Hutchinson.

A man who was supposedly on friendly terms with the victim and a man who gives the grandest description of the man he claims to have seen with the victim.

The man who came forward as George Hutchinson was likely the real killer.

Abberline fell for his BS, because as a psychopath the killer was able to fool even Abberline.

Think "The Usual Suspects" movie.

So who was George Hutchinson?

Another character adopted by a great actor no doubt.

yup. ive often thought the same. "the greatest trick the devil ever played on man was to convince him he dosnt exist" -Verbal Kent

[Herlock Sholmes]

Yes, terminology does change over the decades.
Back in the late 19th century 'sister' was a term of endearment females used to introduce a best friend. We find parallels today when some men refer to their best friend as 'brother'.
I use a 19th century dictionary when I suspect there has been a change of meaning, this is how 'sister' was used in the 1800's:





Quite possibly the same 'botherer', on the prowl.

Could be Wick. It’s certainly interesting.

[Wickerman]

The other bit of the puzzle Wick is that, when describing the ‘Botherer’ incident Kennedy said that she was with her sister while Lewis just said that she was with a ‘woman.’ Not that it’s any kind of game changing point of course. Just a little curious.

Yes, terminology does change over the decades.
Back in the late 19th century 'sister' was a term of endearment females used to introduce a best friend. We find parallels today when some men refer to their best friend as 'brother'.
I use a 19th century dictionary when I suspect there has been a change of meaning, this is how 'sister' was used in the 1800's:

Finally, and I call this point “There’s A Whole Lotta Bothering Going On”

Mrs. Paumier, a young woman who sells roasted chestnuts at the corner of Widegate street, a thoroughfare about two minutes' walk from the scene of the murder, stated that about twelve o'clock that (Friday) morning, a man dressed like a gentleman came to her and said, "I suppose you have heard about the murder in Dorset street." She replied that she had, whereupon the man grinned and said, "I know more about it than you." He then stared into her face and went down Sandy's row, another narrow thoroughfare which cuts across Widegate street. When he had got some way off, however, he looked back, as if to see whether she was watching him, and then vanished. Mrs. Paumier said the man had a black moustache, was about five feet six inches high, and wore a black silk hat, a black coat, and speckled trousers. He also carried a black shiny bag about a foot in depth and a foot and a half in length. Mrs. Paumier stated further that the same man accosted three young girls whom she knows on Thursday night, and they chaffed him, and asked him what he had in the bag, and he replied, "Something that the ladies don't like." Mrs. Paumier told her story with every appearance of truthfulness. One of the young women she named

Sarah Roney, a girl about 20 years of age, states that she was with two other girls on Thursday night in Brushfield street, which is near Dorset street, when a man, wearing a tall hat and a black coat, and carrying a black bag, came up to her and said, "Will you come with me?" She told him she would not, and asked him what he had in the bag, and he said, "Something the ladies don't like." He then walked away.

So that’s Wednesday, Thursday and Friday.

Quite possibly the same 'botherer', on the prowl.

[Herlock Sholmes]

The Evening News tells us where Mrs Kennedy lived.

Immediately opposite the house in which Mary Jane Kelly was murdered is a tenement occupied by an Irishman, named Gallagher, and his family. On Thursday night Gallagher and his wife retired to rest at a fairly early hour. Their married daughter, a woman named Mrs. Kennedy, came home, however, at a late hour.

Sarah Lewis told the court where she lived:

I live at 24, Great Pearl-street, and am a laundress. I know Mrs. Keyler, in Miller's-court..

Lewis even provides the name of the family - Keyler, which is Gallagher or Kellegher, given allowances for accents. There was a strong Irish presence in and around Dorset St.

Both Bowyer & McCarthy knew all their tenants by sight, Bowyer collected the rent.
Is it seriously being suggested Sarah Lewis could pose as someone else (Mrs Kennedy) in front of all those witnesses who knew her face and her name, in that small courtroom?

C'mon, let’s try to keep this serious.

The other bit of the puzzle Wick is that, when describing the ‘Botherer’ incident Kennedy said that she was with her sister while Lewis just said that she was with a ‘woman.’ Not that it’s any kind of game changing point of course. Just a little curious.

Finally, and I call this point “There’s A Whole Lotta Bothering Going On”

Mrs. Paumier, a young woman who sells roasted chestnuts at the corner of Widegate street, a thoroughfare about two minutes' walk from the scene of the murder, stated that about twelve o'clock that (Friday) morning, a man dressed like a gentleman came to her and said, "I suppose you have heard about the murder in Dorset street." She replied that she had, whereupon the man grinned and said, "I know more about it than you." He then stared into her face and went down Sandy's row, another narrow thoroughfare which cuts across Widegate street. When he had got some way off, however, he looked back, as if to see whether she was watching him, and then vanished. Mrs. Paumier said the man had a black moustache, was about five feet six inches high, and wore a black silk hat, a black coat, and speckled trousers. He also carried a black shiny bag about a foot in depth and a foot and a half in length. Mrs. Paumier stated further that the same man accosted three young girls whom she knows on Thursday night, and they chaffed him, and asked him what he had in the bag, and he replied, "Something that the ladies don't like." Mrs. Paumier told her story with every appearance of truthfulness. One of the young women she named

Sarah Roney, a girl about 20 years of age, states that she was with two other girls on Thursday night in Brushfield street, which is near Dorset street, when a man, wearing a tall hat and a black coat, and carrying a black bag, came up to her and said, "Will you come with me?" She told him she would not, and asked him what he had in the bag, and he said, "Something the ladies don't like." He then walked away.

So that’s Wednesday, Thursday and Friday.

[Wickerman]

The Evening News tells us where Mrs Kennedy lived.

Immediately opposite the house in which Mary Jane Kelly was murdered is a tenement occupied by an Irishman, named Gallagher, and his family. On Thursday night Gallagher and his wife retired to rest at a fairly early hour. Their married daughter, a woman named Mrs. Kennedy, came home, however, at a late hour.

Sarah Lewis told the court where she lived:

I live at 24, Great Pearl-street, and am a laundress. I know Mrs. Keyler, in Miller's-court..

Lewis even provides the name of the family - Keyler, which is Gallagher or Kellegher, given allowances for accents. There was a strong Irish presence in and around Dorset St.

Both Bowyer & McCarthy knew all their tenants by sight, Bowyer collected the rent.
Is it seriously being suggested Sarah Lewis could pose as someone else (Mrs Kennedy) in front of all those witnesses who knew her face and her name, in that small courtroom?

C'mon, lets try to keep this serious.

[Sunny Delight]

Sarah Lewis: I live at 24, Great Pearl-street, and am a laundress. I know Mrs. Keyler, in Miller's-court, and went to her house at 2, Miller's-court, at 2.30a.m. on Friday. It is the first house

Daily News, Nov 12th: A woman named Kennedy was on the night of the murder staying with her parents at a house in the court immediately opposite the room in which the body of Mary Kelly was found

So these two women went to the same house in Miller’s Court. The Keyler’s lived upstairs whilst Julie Venturney lived downstairs.

Then Sarah Lewis: On Wednesday night I was going along the Bethnal-green-road, with a woman, about eight o'clock, when a gentleman passed us. He followed us and spoke to us, and wanted us to follow him into an entry. He had a shiny leather bag with him.

And Mrs Kennedy: On Wednesday evening about eight o'clock she and her sister were in the neighbourhood of Bethnal green road, when they were accosted by a very suspicious looking man, about forty years of age.

What to make of this?

We make of it that they were the same person. Sarah Lewis used the name Mrs. Kennedy when talking to the paper/s. Why she did that- who knows? But the liklihood is that she did.

[Herlock Sholmes]

Sarah Lewis: I live at 24, Great Pearl-street, and am a laundress. I know Mrs. Keyler, in Miller's-court, and went to her house at 2, Miller's-court, at 2.30a.m. on Friday. It is the first house

Daily News, Nov 12th: A woman named Kennedy was on the night of the murder staying with her parents at a house in the court immediately opposite the room in which the body of Mary Kelly was found

So these two women went to the same house in Miller’s Court. The Keyler’s lived upstairs whilst Julie Venturney lived downstairs.

Then Sarah Lewis: On Wednesday night I was going along the Bethnal-green-road, with a woman, about eight o'clock, when a gentleman passed us. He followed us and spoke to us, and wanted us to follow him into an entry. He had a shiny leather bag with him.

And Mrs Kennedy: On Wednesday evening about eight o'clock she and her sister were in the neighbourhood of Bethnal green road, when they were accosted by a very suspicious looking man, about forty years of age.

What to make of this?

[Sunny Delight]

I have a read of a previous thread and there was a post that a Sarah Lewis of Great Pearl Street, likely our Sarah Lewis was a neighbour to a Kennedy family? Did anything further ever come of that link? This may explain her use of the name Mrs Kennedy. It was the first name she thought of.

[Sunny Delight]

I suspect Lewis was called because she saw the 'loiterer' (Hutch), opposite Millers Court, whereas Kennedy makes no mention of him.

There are actually two questions concerning that 3:00 am sighting.
First, since the discovery of the murder the papers & public were of a mind Kelly was murdered late Friday morning, after 9:00 am.
So, having a witness say she saw Kelly about 3:00 am, is not so striking. Also, the cry of 'murder' seemed to be heard after 3:30, even around 4:00 am.
The Coroner not calling Kennedy, is not a reflection on the witness. The press reported Kennedy was expecting to be called, she had been interviewed by Abberline.
If, the Coroner believed the murder took place between 3:30-4:00 am, why call Maxwell?
We also know from the testimony that further sittings were expected, Kennedy may have been scheduled to appear after the adjournment - which, never happened.

Well then the inverse is also true. If Maxwell saw Kelly in the morning why call Lewis? She had seen a man loitering hours before Maxwell had see her. Secondly Kennedy states she saw Kelly outside the Britannia at 3am. With a man no less. So why call Lewis if Kelly was alive and well 45 minutes after she has seen Hutchinson. You can gave it all ways nor can the she may have been due to appear be a reasonable supposition. You can use that about anyone who didn't appear.

What you are essentially saying is that Lewis was called because she had seen a man loitering near Millers Court at 2:30am. Someone Lewis had not seen converse with Kelly. Someone she had not seen do anything but seem to be waiting on someone. Kennedy isnt called because she doesnt mention the loiterer but in fact she claims to have seen Kelly 45 minutes later in the company of a man and woman but the Coroner deems this what- unimportant?..........

I think to any reasonable common sense approach Lewis and Kennedy are the same person.