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Hutchinson The Sailor Man

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  • #16
    Malcolm Im sorry of the Toppy records thread is complicated.
    I presented the information as I obtained it, rather than obtaining the whole picture and putting it up in a more logical manner. I only knew the bare outlines of Toppys background and inevitably checking different leads led me off into different directions which complicated the picture. My main aim was to put all the information in one relatively easily accessible place, and to test various propositions that had been previously discussed concerning what was and what wasnt plausible or likely respecting his movements.
    Contrary to some peoples claims I did not have any particularly strong pre-conceived notions about what I would find and I have published everything I have found apart from a handful of documents which are not of massive significance and are out of sequence, but for the sake of completeness I will put up at some point.
    I think the records largely speak for themselves. If they had tended to totally discount Toppy as the witness, then I would still have put up whatever I had found.

    Marlowe asked me to look at Hutchinson the Sailor.

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    • #17
      For the identification of Hutchinson the Sailor with the Hutchinson who presented himself to Commercial Street Police Station, some might cling to the strict upbringing on the Training Ship Exmouth and subsequent naval discipline as contributing towards a ‘military appearance’.
      Those who like Hutchinson as the culprit might like the connection to the purported ‘sailor suspect’.

      However if Hutchinson the Sailor was Hutchinson the innocent witness, then what was he doing at the Victoria Home and why did he describe himself as a sometime groom and labourer?
      From what we can discern he will have left the Exmouth and signed up immediately with the Royal Navy or the Merchant Navy.
      When on shore leave, his mother’s house in south London would appear to have been his port of call. Indeed that would be the most logical and sensible thing for him to do.
      There is nothing to put him back in the East End.

      For Hutchinson the Sailor to be Hutchinson the Ripper, he would have had to deliberately chose to go to the East End in preference to his mother’s house, presumably for the express purpose of committing the crimes. He will have had to have had an extended period of shore leave – from August to November and used that time to take on casual work as a groom and labourer.
      It might be objected that maybe he didn’t really work as a groom or labourer at all, but I would suggest that this is unlikely as I am certain that he would have been ‘checked out’ by the police and that would have included asking who his most recent employers were. They would also have asked where his family were from. He could have lied about that but it would have been dangerous.

      The Hutchinsonites claim that his police interview was forced upon him by Lewis’s testimony at the inquest. Either he heard her inquest description of the wide-awake man or he saw her go in or come out of Shoreditch Town Hall and took fright.
      But why did he then do a press interview or interviews? This is actually one of the implausible aspects of Hutchinson as the culprit.
      The press interview could have included a detailed description of him. Coupled with his name – George Hutchinson – this could have alerted his mother and brother.

      A contemporary sketch picture of Hutchinson also appeared. Some claim that the picture was from life or at least was a genuine likeness. If true this would also have alerted his mother and brother. I am personally of the opinion that it is a generic image, but in giving pres interviews how was Hutchinson to know that the journalist would not have been accompanied by an illustrator?

      There are so many implausibilities in the Hutchinson the Sailor being the culprit, which when added to what I think are the existing implausibilities for the standard Hutchinson being the culprit, make his candidacy totally unrealistic.

      There are a few other areas I can check with this Hutchinson, but compared to Toppy he is a very poor candidate for being the Hutchinson witness.
      Last edited by Lechmere; 10-21-2011, 03:33 PM.

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      • #18
        .
        please carry on, but i'm just saying dont drag H onto too many threads, because it's too much to keep a track of, as well as the apron and Stride too.

        as for H as JTR, again lets try not to discuss this yet, because this is so damned complicated and we are not really ready for this yet

        because the priority is getting these signatures checked first



        .

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        • #19
          I'd rather keep the different aspects to different threads as they get long and you can't check back very easily - I will start a thread about Ruby Retros Hutchinson the Publican's son soon - and when I have enough handwriting samples I will start a handwriting thread.
          I don't think the handwriting analysis will prove to be conclusive - it will all be arguable I think.

          Comment


          • #20
            arguable

            Hello Lechmere. What? An argument about Hutch's handwriting? Don't be absurd! (heh-heh)

            Cheers.
            LC

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            • #21
              Originally posted by Malcolm X View Post
              .

              because the priority is getting these signatures checked first


              .
              Your priority Malcolm. I'm already sure about them

              Mike
              huh?

              Comment


              • #22
                This is St Philips Church now the Royal London Hospital Medical Library. The grey plaque on the wall on the left is dated July 1888 and commemorates the initial re-build of the church. I think the parts of the building in yellow/tan brickwork are surviving parts of the old church building.
                Click image for larger version

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                • #23
                  The training ship Exmouth was lent by the Royal Navy to The Metropolitian Asylum board to give pauper boys an education,and train them in seamanship from the age of 12. It was not the only ship of its kind. It was a fantastic opportunity for the pauper boys to improve their chances in life, many joining the Royal Navy OR Merchant Marines.The first ship was used in 1876.

                  Miss Marple
                  Last edited by miss marple; 10-22-2011, 01:15 PM.

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                  • #24
                    ,,`,, Debs ,,`,,

                    I am not DJA. He's called Dave.

                    Comment


                    • #25
                      Originally posted by Debra A View Post
                      Hi Debra
                      happy New year!

                      As usual thanks for posting! I cant make out the writing-can you summarize what it says? and your analysis?
                      "Is all that we see or seem
                      but a dream within a dream?"

                      -Edgar Allan Poe


                      "...the man and the peaked cap he is said to have worn
                      quite tallies with the descriptions I got of him."

                      -Frederick G. Abberline

                      Comment


                      • #26
                        Originally posted by Abby Normal View Post
                        Hi Debra
                        happy New year!

                        As usual thanks for posting! I cant make out the writing-can you summarize what it says? and your analysis?
                        Hi Abby

                        It's just the record sheet of George Hutchinson b c 1866 who was on the Exmouth training ship in 1881 that Ed highlighted at the beginning of this thread. There's not much extra information but I thought it might be useful for someones research if they were interested in this man.
                        It basically gives a record of his time training. He received a medal for good conduct. He was only little, 4ft 11" at age 16 but maybe he hadn't finished growing by then!
                        ,,`,, Debs ,,`,,

                        I am not DJA. He's called Dave.

                        Comment


                        • #27
                          Originally posted by Debra A View Post
                          Hi Abby

                          It's just the record sheet of George Hutchinson b c 1866 who was on the Exmouth training ship in 1881 that Ed highlighted at the beginning of this thread. There's not much extra information but I thought it might be useful for someones research if they were interested in this man.
                          It basically gives a record of his time training. He received a medal for good conduct. He was only little, 4ft 11" at age 16 but maybe he hadn't finished growing by then!
                          thanks Debs!
                          stout not tall. isn't that what Sarah lewis said?
                          whats your thoughts on this being the hutch?
                          "Is all that we see or seem
                          but a dream within a dream?"

                          -Edgar Allan Poe


                          "...the man and the peaked cap he is said to have worn
                          quite tallies with the descriptions I got of him."

                          -Frederick G. Abberline

                          Comment


                          • #28
                            Originally posted by Abby Normal View Post
                            thanks Debs!
                            stout not tall. isn't that what Sarah lewis said?
                            whats your thoughts on this being the hutch?
                            Abby,a friend reckons that a boy can shoot up 2ft in one year age 14/15/16 so he may have been as tall as Joseph Flemming in the end!
                            I'm still kinda curious about Ambrose Hutchinson's son for GH. Not saying he is, just interested because he died before 1911 and never married, so his signature has never been up for comparison and he lived in Church St Spitalfields IIRC.
                            ,,`,, Debs ,,`,,

                            I am not DJA. He's called Dave.

                            Comment


                            • #29
                              Were there TWO George Hutchinsons witnessing? Because one has already been found and ID:d via his signature...

                              Comment


                              • #30
                                Originally posted by Fisherman View Post
                                Were there TWO George Hutchinsons witnessing? Because one has already been found and ID:d via his signature...
                                Ask Ed...he started this thread!
                                ,,`,, Debs ,,`,,

                                I am not DJA. He's called Dave.

                                Comment

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