Poll: does the evidence support the contention that Hutchinson mistook the day

[lynn cates]

absent minded

Hello Viper. The phenomenon you describe happens frequently to those in my curious profession. Hence the stereotype of "the absent minded professor."

Cheers.
LC

[Jane Coram]

Hi Fisherman,

Just to briefly answer your last post. Perhaps the best way to present suggestions is to cite or post the piece of relevant evidence and then just make a one or two sentence comment about it? For instance, in the case of Lewis, all that really needs to be said is that Hutchinson doesn't mention her in his statement. If she was there, why didn't he see her or mention her? People can then make up their own minds about it. You can always refer them to the relevant posts on the 'Did Hutchinson get the night wrong thread.' for more information. Heaven knows it's been discussed there enough to last a life time.

I'll get the evidence together and get it up.

Regards

Janie

Sorry I've had to edit this because I've just seen that some of it was irrelevant. I'm going round the bend.

[Fisherman]

I am not sure what you are after here, Jane...? Some sort of telegraph posting? "Said he was there on 9:th" , "Lewis missing in testimony", "Dew convinced of muddled days", "Kelly definitely dead"...?

I think I´d better go to ground and await your revealing post, Jane. I´ll say one thing for Lewis and her ever prevailing absense, though: It is interesting that she did not even make it to the pro-Hutchinson arguments that were presented at the outset of this thread. It is arguably the perhaps best evidence we have to show that Hutch was a day off, but once again, Lewis does not turn up when she really ought to ...

The best,
Fisherman

[Jane Coram]

Hi Fish,

I don't think anyone would think that a short paragraph was taking liberties, - it's just that very long posts tend to make it very hard for people to stay with the discussion. We would like them to make their mind up and vote before that start drawing their old age pensions. Lol.

Regards

Janie

xxxx

First bit coming shortly.

[DVV]

Bonjour David! Ça va?

Umm, I'm not sure I can say this in French, but I'll try.

David, il est illégal de stuffez le box du ballots!

Bon.

I said it louder and in color to help you understand.

Au revoir,
Archaic

Hello Bunny !

I'm fine....as fine as Hutch stepping out of the police station. But to be fair, I'm about to vote Yes twice.

All the best
David

[Sister Hyde]

ahahahah i learn new words from my own language every day!!! "stuffer"... what does it give on simple past form?
anyway i think Hutchinson might have mistaken the day

[DVV]

Arrrrfffff......impossible qu'il se soit trompé de jour..... On parle d'une victime que le brave Hutch est censé connaître, et dont l'assassinat a mis le quartier en émoi le vendredi 9 à partir de 11h.....ça n'arrive pas tous les jours...pas plus qu'une bizarre excursion à Romford.

Amitiés
David

[Jane Coram]

Hi Fisherman,

Forgive me for going back to basics here, but the foundation of your argument (I hope I'm correct in saying) is Walter Dew's statement in his memoirs; that the weather was grim that night, making it unlikely that Hutchinson would have walked around all night and that the absence of Mrs Lewis in Hutchinson's statement consolidates the suggestion that it was the early hours of Thursday morning and not Friday morning.

On the other side, we have the signed police statement saying it was the 9th, a letter from Abberline showing that he accepted Hutchinson's dating of the incident as correct, and the newspaper reports, one of which at least was a statement made by Hutchinson confirming it was Friday the 9th. This side of the argument suggests that Lewis' testimony confirms that Hutchinson was there on the 9th and her witness statement ties in exactly with Hutchinson's. If no-one else posts it up, then I will, in a bit.

Hopefully, we can come up with some more evidence for both sides.

If we can go through taking one piece your evidence at a time, starting with Dew. This is the relevant portion of it. Chapter VIII.

But I know from my experience that many people, with the best of intentions, are often mistaken, not necessarily as to a person, but as to date and time. And I can see no other explanation in this case than that Mrs. Maxwell and George Hutchison were wrong. . .

And if Mrs. Maxwell was mistaken, is it not probable that George Hutchison erred also? This, without reflecting in any way on either witness, is my considered view. I believe that the man of the billycock hat and beard was the last person to enter Marie Kelly's room that night and was her killer. Always assuming that Mrs. Cox ever had seen her with a man.

It has already been brought out on the ‘Did Hutchinson get the night wrong?’ thread that Dew’s memoirs are riddled with errors, and were written 50 years after the event. Neither of those points can really be disputed. I could post up a page full of the errors in Dew's book, but the errors are there for everyone to see. We have to decide for ourselves how much faith we put in Dew.

But he did make the statement and it needs to be addressed.

It's difficult to see if Dew is suggesting that Hutchinson was mistaken about the time or the date or both. It is possible to prove which he meant.

Hutchinson, in his statement to the Daily News of 14th November, says:

I am able to fix the time, as it was between ten and five minutes to two o'clock as I came by Whitechapel Church. When I left the corner of Miller's court the clock struck three o'clock.

That really makes it impossible for Hutchinson to have got the time wrong, so Dew must be suggesting that he might have got the date wrong.

Just a quick look at the police statement and newspaper interview as well:

Hutchinson doesn't say in his statement that this was a Friday, only that it was the 9th. It's reasonable to suggest that he didn't know that Friday was the 9th, because he doesn't state it there specifically. However -

In his statement to the Daily News of November 14th, Hutchinson says:-

I went down to Shoreditch mortuary today and recognised the body as being that of the woman Kelly, whom I saw at two o'clock on Friday morning.


So it's clear that Hutchinson was in no doubt that it was Friday morning when he made those statements, if these reports are accepted at face value. You suggest that even though he put it in his statement, that he might have only thought it was the 9th when it was in fact the 8th.

Is that a fair summary so far? I don't want to hog this thread so won't put up any more now. Other posters might have lots of things they want to chip in with. I do have a lot more to put up, but no-one wants to see reams and reams of my posts!

Regards

Janie

[Fisherman]

DAvid:

"Arrrrfffff......impossible qu'il se soit trompé de jour..... On parle d'une victime que le brave Hutch est censé connaître, et dont l'assassinat a mis le quartier en émoi le vendredi 9 à partir de 11h.....ça n'arrive pas tous les jours...pas plus qu'une bizarre excursion à Romford."

Impossible, David? Pas de tout, mon ami!

Fisherman

[Sister Hyde]

Arrrrfffff......impossible qu'il se soit trompé de jour..... On parle d'une victime que le brave Hutch est censé connaître, et dont l'assassinat a mis le quartier en émoi le vendredi 9 à partir de 11h.....ça n'arrive pas tous les jours...pas plus qu'une bizarre excursion à Romford.

Amitiés
David

ça n'arrive pas tous les jours (encore heureux), mais y'a quelque chose qui me chiffone à propos des déclarations de Hutch.

[DVV]

Hello Soeur H

And yes, many points to baulk at....none of them pointing to a "mistaken day", though....

[Sister Hyde]

maybe he didn't do any mistake in the day, maybe he was just walking next to his shoes

[DVV]

maybe he didn't do any mistake in the day, maybe he was just walking next to his shoes

Who knows....but if so, witness or suspect, no need to discuss about him.

[Sister Hyde]

well of course ther's a use to discuss it. i find the whole Hutchinson story very disturbing, but if his son was telling the truth about his father being a very precise person always remembering details and everything, then it is very unlikely that he did a mistake in the date.

[DVV]

His son ?
Reg ?
Errrr......I don't feel like going there again......