Innocent, By George!

[DVV]

That's not my point, Jon. I said it doesn't explain why he walked all night because since he intended to sleep in the VH, that means he had enough to pay the rent, then why not trying to doss elsewhere ?

[DVV]

Respect Toppy

Hi Richard,

obviously the model-citizen who played violin and enjoyed ice-skating can't be the moron that used to associate with Spitalfields prostitutes, didn't show up at the inquest, put people on with his Sunday sighting and was quickly discredited.

Dvvvvvv

[Wickerman]

That's not my point, Jon. I said it doesn't explain why he walked all night because since he intended to sleep in the VH, that means he had enough to pay the rent, then why not trying to doss elsewhere ?

Didn't someone suggest he would have a pass, cash not being necessary?

Jon

[Malcolm X]

Hi Malcolm,
Are you being serious?
George Hutchinson ..[Topping] was JTR, throughout the autumn of 1888 this 22year old went berserk, visited the police, walked about on the beat with them, was paid for his services, and vanished into a respectable human being, married, took up ice skating and violin playing, not to mention a good old knees up at the local music hall dressed in a boater, and sporting a cane, just like the 90s dapper Dan...
Well I'll be a son of a gun....
To the vast majority of Casebook, the name Topping has become a joke, his late son Reg was merely spinning a tale to a enterprising author for a 1992 book, who used this as a booster for his theory.
Wrong.
This tale/story was broadcast on radio in the 1970s, some 18 years previous to that publication, the LA De DA character was mentioned along with the Hundred shillings payment, all the information that appeared in The Ripper and the Royals, were orally aired by the son/sons of Topping[ we forget Reg had a brother] or a actor reading on behalf of.
There is absolutely no doubt in my mind that I heard that programme, and I am submitting the truth.
Because of this , and the Wheeling article of 1888, which confirms a payment was made to the witness, ie Hutchinson, and bearing in mind that no newspaper in the UK of that period revealed that money changed hands, except for this rare american report, I am totally convinced of Topping being the witness.
To fake somebody's identity, and pretend to be someone who knew a victim , because of realisation that he had the same name as yourself, educate oneself all about the murders, and the statement initially made , not to mention have access to the Wheeling Registrar, and feed that payment into your tale of dark days past, and spin a yarn not only down the local, but to your family for years to come.. is too far fetched to take seriously.
Topping was Hutchinson, he knew Mary Kelly, and like many others, some on record, parted with their money far to easily to her desperate pleads for help.
Regards Richard.

sorry i didn't see this post earlier on.

to me it all seems like a lie that his son made up, but maybe his father pretended to be this witness instead, what is a joke is that this Toppy can not be JTR... for sure, so therefore JTR is someone else.

GH is the original name that JTR chose, it's just unfortunate that Toppy or his son, pretended to be this witness years later.

Finally Ivor Edwards is the one that spoke to Reg and ``walked the walk`` down Dorset st before it was pulled down, he did not believe that TOPPY was the witness... he said he made it all up for the publicity only/ royal conspiracy etc.

the real GH left london and vanished forever..... JTR did not fake his identity at all, he just chose any name and just made sure that his signature matched any other of his that might have existed, probably in VH only.

someone else years later who really was called GH, simply pretended to be this guy.

[Malcolm X]

the only strong thing that favours Toppy is his signature matching.... nothing else and right now i'm not sure what to think about this.
but i can not lie, because i have to say that it does look close, this definitely needs checking again and i wouldn't trust anyone here, because everyone has a hidden agenda that clouds their judgement, even if they dont know it.

GH lived close by and a similar age to her ?..... no this is irrelevant, of course he lived close by; otherwise he couldn't make this up in the first place.

his lie is the fact that what he describes is simply way too suspicious and very unrealistic, but what you have to realise is, that he was there! so he either saw JTR or he is JTR.

WHY WAS HE THERE ?...... i think he couldn't risk comming forward unless he was seen outside, he was, thus he's ok, unless of course he knew that the woman did or didn't see him well enough to doubt him, but to be quite honest, this is stretching things too far.

but i must admit that all of this is a right mess, it always has been.

[DVV]

Didn't someone suggest he would have a pass, cash not being necessary?

Jon

Hi Jon,

I don't know but in my opinion it's unlikely, considering how Nichols and Chapman had to go out and solicit to pay their bed.

Dvvvv

[Wickerman]

Dave.
I think we're missing each other's points.
You seem to think he carried enough money to stay at the VH Thursday night, and if that was so then he should have set off early enough from Romford to arrive before they closed?

I'm taking Hutch at his word that he had no money as it was suggested he may have been issued a pass.
Whether he set off from Romford in time or not can only be assumed but as Thursday night was a rainy night then it is not beyond the bounds of probability that he took shelter en-route back from Romford to wait for the rain to pass. This could easily account for his late arrival.

Lastly, because the VH had a modicome of respectability I could easily accept a man prefering to stay on the streets overnight (only a couple more hours) rather than take a chance in a dosshouse among thieves & criminals or the lower-classes of society.
Although now an out-of-work labourer if he managed to keep up a "military" appearance then equally he just might have had "standards" that he was not willing to compromise.

Regards, Jon S.

[Fleetwood Mac]

There is absolutely no doubt in my mind that I heard that programme, and I am submitting the truth.

Very easy to check, Richard.

There are archives in London which will give you every programme.

Just make a call and they'll point in you in the right direction of listings.

[DVV]

Hi Jon

as I view it, the Victoria Home wasn't Strauss-Khan's Sofitel, and Hutch, military appearance or not, was a poor dosser looking for a job, who apparently used to associate with prostitutes - at least one.

Moreover, a man that would refuse to sleep elsewhere, even on such a cold night, would logically have set-off earlier.

And again, why not asking Kelly to sleep with her ? She was alone and soliciting and her room was just there.

Merry Christmas

[DVV]

Very easy to check, Richard.

There are archives in London which will give you every programme.

Just make a call and they'll point in you in the right direction of listings.

Hi FM, not so easy, I'm afraid (ask Bob Hinton).

I have no doubt regarding this programme.

What I don't understand, since Richard has always defended these Hutchinsons, is their stubborn silence.

Once for all, they should say everything they know about Toppy and the Ripper. Richard would argue they refuse to do so because they feel offended.
In my opinion they don't want to come forward (which is a genetic disease in that family, as it seems) because they know Toppy wasn't the witness and have understood what kind of "study" is the Ripper and the Royals.

[Malcolm X]

Hi Jon

as I view it, the Victoria Home wasn't Strauss-Khan's Sofitel, and Hutch, military appearance or not, was a poor dosser looking for a job, who apparently used to associate with prostitutes - at least one.

Moreover, a man that would refuse to sleep elsewhere, even on such a cold night, would logically have set-off earlier.

And again, why not asking Kelly to sleep with her ? She was alone and soliciting and her room was just there.

Merry Christmas

I doubt that JTR was a poor dosser looking for work, because this means that he's probably Toppy, JTR has to be well above this, or he runs the risk of falling into this category.

a poor out of work dosser would not have the motivation to take on the police and lie so well and show so much cunning... because if so, he would not be poor and unemployed.

being unemployed nowadays is understandable and regrettable, but years ago it was far easier to find work, especially if you were cuning and motivated... for someone like this, you had no excuse for being unemployed.

GH was of military appearence, that is because he was standing still on guard duty outside Millers Court, staring up the court.... nothing more i'm afraid.

just like Orson Wells in the 3rd man with the cat at his feet in the doorway.

[Rubyretro]

.
In my opinion they don't want to come forward because they know Toppy wasn't the witness and have understood what kind of "study" is the Ripper and the Royals.[/QUOTE]

Ah ...now David, we might start agreeing...

It's my opinion too that the Hutchinson family should want to clear things up one way or another, in the natural way of things.
The fact that they don't want to put all their cards on the table, tells me that they like the ongoing speculation.
If they want to encourage speculation then logic dictates that they are afraid that, if we all knew 'the truth', we would just go away and leave them alone....(because their family is a red herring in the Ripper History).

[Malcolm X]

GH if he's JTR, managed to pull off this increadible load of rubbish because in the eyes of the police he looked nothing like a killer.

he was also asked far more questions than we know of... obviously and these weren't worth recording, routine questions, now knowing the police well the one thing you have to take great care off, is the friendly banter when they try to get you to drop your guard.... GH held firm, or he said something that ruled him out as a killer.

for anyone that believes that GH is Toppy, then you have this :-

1.....he does indeed seem pretty thick, in fact; this is an understatement
2.....he could have seen JTR as said, especially if he walked straight past, he could have been dressed like that, i suppose !
3.....oddities like this do happen in life, Arthur C Clark's books contain stuff much stranger than this, and even i've seen stuff that i cant explain.

the common denominator of this is that GH seems pretty thick, so if he's JTR this is how he played it and if i was JTR i would play it as right thicky too, especially if i was pretending to be unemployed as well, this is quite realistic !

when you pretend to be thick, nothing much is expected of you, people feel sorry for you, they help you too much, as such, you can play the system and get away with blue murder.....as the saying goes, ``he got away with murder``

[Malcolm X]

.
In my opinion they don't want to come forward because they know Toppy wasn't the witness and have understood what kind of "study" is the Ripper and the Royals.

Ah ...now David, we might start agreeing...[/QUOTE]

yes they know a family member is lieing or they sense it.

[Stephen Thomas]

to me it all seems like a lie that his son made up, but maybe his father pretended to be this witness instead, what is a joke is that this Toppy can not be JTR... for sure, so therefore JTR is someone else.

GH is the original name that JTR chose, it's just unfortunate that Toppy or his son, pretended to be this witness years later.

Finally Ivor Edwards is the one that spoke to Reg and ``walked the walk`` down Dorset st before it was pulled down, he did not believe that TOPPY was the witness... he said he made it all up for the publicity only/ royal conspiracy etc.

the real GH left london and vanished forever..... JTR did not fake his identity at all, he just chose any name and just made sure that his signature matched any other of his that might have existed, probably in VH only.

someone else years later who really was called GH, simply pretended to be this guy.

That post is so silly on so many levels.