Innocent, By George!

[Lechmere]

DVV
Venturney said someone called Joe (nor Barnett) ill-used Kelly. It is a guess that this equals Flemming.

Mr Ben
You need to sort out in your head the difference between your theories and evidence. There is a distinction.
Like the theory that Venturney's Joe equals Joe Flemming. Maybe he was maybe he wasn't. Maybe Hutchinson gave a statement because of Lewis's testimony, maybe he didn't.

[DVV]

Fleming, not Flemming, please.

[DVV]

And that Joe is Fleming, no doubt.

[The Good Michael]

David,

I think it has been either Fleming or Flemming in the newspapers. I prefer the latter because it is closer to 'lemming' and anyone who follows him as a suspect will be headed for the same cliffs.

Mike

[DVV]

Héhé !

Seriously, we must spell Fleming. Spelling Flemming equals to ignore his biographical details -his birth certificate, to begin with.

[The Good Michael]

David,

Sorry, but if folks can't accept Hutch as Toppy, given the huge amounts of coincidences plus familial corroboration, we can't accept Flem(m)ing as having been discovered. Besides, we are down to at least two candidates and the Stone Cold Sober Asylum inmate seems to me to be the least of the two while remaining, at 6'7" the greater of the two.

Mike

[DVV]

Delete this post, Mike, it's one of the most ugly in your rather brilliant career.

[DVV]

Sorry, but if folks can't accept Hutch as Toppy, given the huge amounts of coincidences plus familial corroboration
Mike

I see no such things, Mike. It's just about a stupid author who needed a Hutchinson for the sake of his theory, and found one.

[Lechmere]

Yes he found someone at random whose dad was 22 in 1888 and called George Hutchinson, whose parents were married in Shoreditch Church. Reg claimed his dad was paid as a witness (and we know the police did pay such people frequently) and that someone coincidentaly called George Hutchinson was a roving witness and there is a rumour he was paid for his services. And we know his dad lived in central London in 1891, well away from the rest of his family and he married an East End girl a few years later.
But these are all coincidences.
As is the fact that his signature looks the same as Hutchinson's to mere idiots like me.

[DVV]

But these are all coincidences.

Oh, but there're many more coincidences in Hutch story.
The trip to Romford, the door closed at the VH, the meeting with Kelly, and the wonderful Sunday morning in Petticoat Lane.

[Lechmere]

Eh? Why are they coincidences?

[DVV]

What you call coincidences are lies and fabrications, that's what I mean.

[Wickerman]

David,
...anyone who follows him as a suspect will be headed for the same cliffs.

Mike

'Scuse me for asking but do you mean "Ripper Suspect", or "Kelly's murder suspect"?

[Lechmere]

DVV - do you mean that...

The trip to Romford is a lie?
It could be, although I would suggest that the police could have verified it of they wanted to so it would be a foolish and risky lie. I don’t think it is a ‘coincidence’ though.

The door closed at the VH is a lie?
I would suggest that the evidence suggests the doors shut at 12.30 or 1 am and an inmate couldn’t gain access without a special pass after this time. You could argue that he didn’t really live at the Victoria Home and he pretended he did as an excuse for not being able to gain access and so provide a reason to be on the streets. I would suggest that would be a risky strategy as again he could get caught out. It could be he used the closure as an excuse and deliberately got back late so he couldn’t get access. I don’t think this classifies as a ‘coincidence’ though.

The meeting with Kelly is a lie?
Maybe. I am not certain he met Kelly. I guess the Hutchinson as a Ripper theory is that he never met her at all, but stalked her while she was in Miller’s Court and maybe broke in? Or perhaps picked her up and accompanied her back there, in which case Lewis saw him in post murder mode? The Kelly meeting could be regarded as an attempt to ‘finger someone else. I don’t know that you’d put it down as a coincidence.

The wonderful Sunday morning in Petticoat Lane is a lie?
Maybe. I haven’t really passed comment on this. He may have spoken to a policeman – it could have easily been checked though. I tend to doubt he saw the A-man again there – if he ever existed. That would have been a coincidence.

[DVV]

The bizarre trip to Romford "explains" why Hutch was in Dorset Street that night.
Certainly the VH was closed, but did all dossers had to roam the streets after 12.30 ?
No.
As for Astrakhan Man, nobody ever saw him, but Hutch saw him twice. And did not bother too much until Monday evening.
Don't you smell more than one rat ?