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A theory on GH for JtR

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  • A theory on GH for JtR

    I have a theory on George Hutchinson for being JtR. Its more of a “connect the dots” idea then bringing up anything new. Two things jumped out at me right from the start about GH and these two things taken together really put up the red flag about him for me initially. First, is the highly improbable detailed description of A-man along with fact he said he was Jewish looking. Secondly, is his admission of standing, waiting outside Millers Court the night of MK’s murder.

    Later, upon learning about other facts of the case, which I will get into as I explain what I think might have happened, I began to think of the coincidences and how they might be connected.
    Let me just say, that I don’t think that GH was definitely JtR, but that he, along with a handful of other candidates, makes a viable suspect. If he was JtR, then my idea goes like this:

    JtR kills his first victims (Tabram perhaps, Nichols, Chapman)without getting caught but also without being seen-or seen well. It is the night of the double event where, for the first time, in his mind witnesses get a good look at him. With a reluctant Stride, who is taking longer for him to manipulate into a secluded area, he is perhaps seen by several witnesses. However, it is the last of these, Israel Schwartz, that’s the one that makes an impression in JtR’s mind. He is the witness that not only gets the first real good look at him, but actually sees him in a very incriminating situation-i.e-attacking (or beginning to attack) a victim. JtR shouts “Lipski” to scare away the Jewish looking Schwartz and continues his attack on Stride. Then, after being interrupted (twice) with Stride and not being able to fulfill his true desire to mutilate and take organs, he quickly leaves that “hot” area in search of another victim.

    He finds another victim in Eddowes and finally has his way with her, but once again, not without being seen by three witnesses together, and most importantly of the three, Joseph Lawende. After these events and once he is done with Eddowes, JtR thinks could these witnesses be his downfall in the near future? At this point he decides he needs to do something to throw off the police who may very well be soon getting his description from these witnesses. So he writes the GSG implicating Jews and leaves a portion of Stride’s bloody apron.

    That night, with Stride, he is seen by the Jewish looking Schwartz and then later by Lawende and his companions. Knowing he has been seen well, by not one, but possibly two to four Jews, JtR decides to use them as the scapegoat (false) suspect. He probably knows of the prevailing thought in the public/police/press that a Jew may be responsible for the first murders and along with perhaps being angry by being interrupted by them (and knowing, obviously, that he himself is not Jewish) he uses them as a very convenient way to point the way away from himself.

    On the night of Mary Kelly’s murder, he is seen again by a witness by Sarah Lewis, as he waits outside of Miller’s court. After missing the inquest-where he knows there will be witnesses-he decides to make the bold decision to go to the police (on his terms) this time in his plan of misleading them further and to give a reason of why he was there that night. Perhaps he recognized Lewis that night and feared she might know him as well (perhaps even his name) since by his own admission he had known Mary Kelly for a long time. If there was a good chance they might be looking for him as a suspect who was perhaps suspiciously waiting and watching outside the murdered woman’s court, perhaps it was a good calculated risk to come forward as a potential witness instead.

    And who is GH’s “suspect”? a Jew. To me the implication of a Jew in the GSG, the shouting of Lipski and then the direct description of a Jew by a “witness” is the connection to me that may all point back to GH as being the killer. A man with the confidence (arrogance), risk taking and manipulative prowess to pull off a night like the double event is the same kind of man who could go to the police with the A-man story. And we never hear from him again.

    The greatest trick the devil ever played on man, was to convince him he doesn’t exist.”
    "Is all that we see or seem
    but a dream within a dream?"

    -Edgar Allan Poe


    "...the man and the peaked cap he is said to have worn
    quite tallies with the descriptions I got of him."

    -Frederick G. Abberline

  • #2
    But Abby, if JTR wanted to frame the Jews, one idea would be to draw a star of David in blood on the partition wall of Number 13. So why didn't he?

    Comment


    • #3
      Hi Abby,

      I think your theory has a great deal going for it. Indeed, I have an article in the pipeline that argues along these lines.

      Various authors and historians such as Philip Sugden and Martin Friedland have argued that the killer sought to fuel the widespread suspicions against the Jewish community whenever an opportunity presented itself to do so, and I'm in full in agreement with them.

      Best regards,
      Ben
      Last edited by Ben; 10-22-2010, 10:50 PM.

      Comment


      • #4
        Originally posted by Ben View Post
        Hi Abby,

        I think your theory has a great deal going for it. Indeed, I have an article in the pipeline that argues along these lines.

        Various authors and historians such as Philip Sugden and Martin Friedland have argued that the killer sought to fuel the widespread suspicions against the Jewish community whenever an opportunity presented itself to do so, and I'm in full in agreement with them.

        Best regards,
        Ben
        Hi Ben Thanks. I look forward to reading your article.
        "Is all that we see or seem
        but a dream within a dream?"

        -Edgar Allan Poe


        "...the man and the peaked cap he is said to have worn
        quite tallies with the descriptions I got of him."

        -Frederick G. Abberline

        Comment


        • #5
          Hi Abby,
          Nothing wrong with the theory, but who is the George Hutchinson you are accusing , Topping , or someone that is unknown to all of us.?
          If its the latter fine... but Regs [ proven] father GWTH, was not one of the most bloodthirsty monsters of all time... was he? no wonder JD was reluctant to speak futher.
          The police were no fools, even though somewhat primitive by modern methods, but Barnett satisfied the police, so you can be absolutely certain a man that puts himself at the scene of the crime, on the relevant date /time, would have had to convince them. of his innocence, before Abberline believed him, and encouraged him to help in their investigations.
          But being a theorist myself , I respect your scenerio..
          Regards Richard.

          Comment


          • #6
            Originally posted by Robert View Post
            But Abby, if JTR wanted to frame the Jews, one idea would be to draw a star of David in blood on the partition wall of Number 13. So why didn't he?
            Hi Robert
            That would have been one way-perhaps he didn't think of it.

            There could have been many ways to do it, including the ways in which he did (in my opinion, of course).
            "Is all that we see or seem
            but a dream within a dream?"

            -Edgar Allan Poe


            "...the man and the peaked cap he is said to have worn
            quite tallies with the descriptions I got of him."

            -Frederick G. Abberline

            Comment


            • #7
              Abby Normal:

              "That would have been one way-perhaps he didn't think of it."
              I have to say IŽm with Robert here. I find it utterly strange that he did not come to think one one single, unmistakeable way of saying "The jews did it".

              There. I did it. So why couldnŽt he?

              The best,
              Fisherman

              Comment


              • #8
                Originally posted by Fisherman View Post
                Abby Normal:

                "That would have been one way-perhaps he didn't think of it."
                I have to say IŽm with Robert here. I find it utterly strange that he did not come to think one one single, unmistakeable way of saying "The jews did it".

                There. I did it. So why couldnŽt he?

                The best,
                Fisherman
                He did. twice. Fish.
                "Is all that we see or seem
                but a dream within a dream?"

                -Edgar Allan Poe


                "...the man and the peaked cap he is said to have worn
                quite tallies with the descriptions I got of him."

                -Frederick G. Abberline

                Comment


                • #9
                  I totally agree with your theory, Abby. Indeed, I think that you can go further -if you look at the murder sites on the night of the Double Event,
                  you may ask why JTR would choose Berner Street, which was not the lonliest spot nor with the most prostitutes, and why Dutfield's yard right next to club full of people? Unless you think (like me), that the site was targetted precisely because it was in proximity to a Jewish/socialist club.

                  You can ask why did the killer then go to Mitre Square in the city of London,
                  and outside his 'area'...except that it was in the heavily Jewish ward of Portsoken, in proximity to an important synagogue and on the night of another Jewish club meeting (from which Lawende and others were coming, passing the passage, where Eddowes was supposedly seen).

                  The GSG was found in a builing mainly inhabited by Jews, and on a route back from Mitre Square to the Victoria home.

                  Bucks Row and Hanbury street pose more questions, but they both have Jewish/socialist links (I won't expand here)-at any rate, the anti-Jewish fever was already running high after these murders, and before Berner Street, so I think that these locations mean't something at the time.

                  I am interested in the dates for the murders too...I would expect Club meetings to be held on weekends, once a month ? (speculation).

                  (By the way, did you try googling 'Hamsa Horseshoe', and see the Jewish charms ? )
                  http://youtu.be/GcBr3rosvNQ

                  Comment


                  • #10
                    Originally posted by richardnunweek View Post
                    Hi Abby,
                    Nothing wrong with the theory, but who is the George Hutchinson you are accusing , Topping , or someone that is unknown to all of us.?
                    If its the latter fine... but Regs [ proven] father GWTH, was not one of the most bloodthirsty monsters of all time... was he? no wonder JD was reluctant to speak futher.
                    The police were no fools, even though somewhat primitive by modern methods, but Barnett satisfied the police, so you can be absolutely certain a man that puts himself at the scene of the crime, on the relevant date /time, would have had to convince them. of his innocence, before Abberline believed him, and encouraged him to help in their investigations.
                    But being a theorist myself , I respect your scenerio..
                    Regards Richard.
                    Hi Richard
                    Thanks for the response.
                    I guess in my mind, it really doesn't matter. If its "unknown GH"-well then its unknown GH. If its Toppy, then obviously he kept it secret from his family as some serial killers have been known to do. I will say that, it does kind of surprise me that if GH and Toppy are one in the same and Toppy was just a witness(and not the killer), that he did not speak of it more with his family. But, If he was the killer, it seems to me that he would be reluctant to talk to his family about it, even in his "witness" guise.
                    "Is all that we see or seem
                    but a dream within a dream?"

                    -Edgar Allan Poe


                    "...the man and the peaked cap he is said to have worn
                    quite tallies with the descriptions I got of him."

                    -Frederick G. Abberline

                    Comment


                    • #11
                      Originally posted by Rubyretro View Post
                      I totally agree with your theory, Abby. Indeed, I think that you can go further -if you look at the murder sites on the night of the Double Event,
                      you may ask why JTR would choose Berner Street, which was not the lonliest spot nor with the most prostitutes, and why Dutfield's yard right next to club full of people? Unless you think (like me), that the site was targetted precisely because it was in proximity to a Jewish/socialist club.

                      You can ask why did the killer then go to Mitre Square in the city of London,
                      and outside his 'area'...except that it was in the heavily Jewish ward of Portsoken, in proximity to an important synagogue and on the night of another Jewish club meeting (from which Lawende and others were coming, passing the passage, where Eddowes was supposedly seen).

                      The GSG was found in a builing mainly inhabited by Jews, and on a route back from Mitre Square to the Victoria home.

                      Bucks Row and Hanbury street pose more questions, but they both have Jewish/socialist links (I won't expand here)-at any rate, the anti-Jewish fever was already running high after these murders, and before Berner Street, so I think that these locations mean't something at the time.

                      I am interested in the dates for the murders too...I would expect Club meetings to be held on weekends, once a month ? (speculation).

                      (By the way, did you try googling 'Hamsa Horseshoe', and see the Jewish charms ? )
                      Hi Ruby
                      I guess I would not go that far. I know your ideas, but I lean more towards JtR killing them where the opportunity arose (not targetting specifically jewish areas) and then later blaming jews later after he knew he was seen by a jew(s). i have to admit though I agree with your idea that A-man's apearance was inspired in GH's mind by someone he already knew and thus the perfect fake jewish "suspect" to give to police.
                      "Is all that we see or seem
                      but a dream within a dream?"

                      -Edgar Allan Poe


                      "...the man and the peaked cap he is said to have worn
                      quite tallies with the descriptions I got of him."

                      -Frederick G. Abberline

                      Comment


                      • #12
                        Abby Normal:

                        "He did. twice. Fish."

                        With respect, Abby, he did no such thing. He relied on somebody making the interpretation for him, and 122 years down the line, we are still nowhere near any consensus on the Jew issue - in spite of the fact that he could have put it beyond doubt, had he wanted to.

                        The best,
                        Fisherman

                        Comment


                        • #13
                          Originally posted by Fisherman View Post
                          Abby Normal:

                          "He did. twice. Fish."

                          With respect, Abby, he did no such thing. He relied on somebody making the interpretation for him, and 122 years down the line, we are still nowhere near any consensus on the Jew issue - in spite of the fact that he could have put it beyond doubt, had he wanted to.

                          The best,
                          Fisherman
                          Fish
                          The police at the time thought the GSG was so incriminating that they had it removed. GH told police the suspect was Jewish looking.

                          Also,Anything so obvious and "put it beyond doubt" as "The Jews did it" or the like,I think would make people think that it was obviously a non Jew trying to blame a jew. He was trying to throw off the police, who were no dummies, so perhaps he knew he needed to have a certain degree of subtlety.
                          "Is all that we see or seem
                          but a dream within a dream?"

                          -Edgar Allan Poe


                          "...the man and the peaked cap he is said to have worn
                          quite tallies with the descriptions I got of him."

                          -Frederick G. Abberline

                          Comment


                          • #14
                            Abby Normal:

                            "The police at the time thought the GSG was so incriminating that they had it removed. GH told police the suspect was Jewish looking.
                            Also,Anything so obvious and "put it beyond doubt" as "The Jews did it" or the like,I think would make people think that it was obviously a non Jew trying to blame a jew. He was trying to throw off the police, who were no dummies, so perhaps he knew he needed to have a certain degree of subtlety."

                            Subtlety? "The jews are the men that will not be blamed for nothing"? Subtle? Come on, Abby ...

                            And yes the police erased it - but with no confirmation about what had been meant and who had written it, right? Their concern was not to fuel the already existing tensions that were there long before the GSG.

                            Maybe your suggestion has merit. Maybe not. IŽll be damned if I can tell, so I opt for guessing. Thereby I join forces with each and every voice that has had something to say on this errand for more than a hundred years.

                            The best
                            Fisherman

                            Comment


                            • #15
                              Originally posted by Fisherman View Post
                              Abby Normal:

                              "The police at the time thought the GSG was so incriminating that they had it removed. GH told police the suspect was Jewish looking.
                              Also,Anything so obvious and "put it beyond doubt" as "The Jews did it" or the like,I think would make people think that it was obviously a non Jew trying to blame a jew. He was trying to throw off the police, who were no dummies, so perhaps he knew he needed to have a certain degree of subtlety."

                              Subtlety? "The jews are the men that will not be blamed for nothing"? Subtle? Come on, Abby ...

                              And yes the police erased it - but with no confirmation about what had been meant and who had written it, right? Their concern was not to fuel the already existing tensions that were there long before the GSG.

                              Maybe your suggestion has merit. Maybe not. IŽll be damned if I can tell, so I opt for guessing. Thereby I join forces with each and every voice that has had something to say on this errand for more than a hundred years.

                              The best
                              Fisherman
                              Hi Fish

                              Subtlety? "The jews are the men that will not be blamed for nothing"? Subtle? Come on, Abby ...


                              Its a lot more subtle than "the jews did it", which you suggested, isn't it?

                              so I opt for guessing. Thereby I join forces with each and every voice that has had something to say on this errand for more than a hundred years.

                              As do i Fish. And I would also empahasize the word "guessing" in agreeing with your statement, as obviously thats all I am doing my little theory here. : )
                              "Is all that we see or seem
                              but a dream within a dream?"

                              -Edgar Allan Poe


                              "...the man and the peaked cap he is said to have worn
                              quite tallies with the descriptions I got of him."

                              -Frederick G. Abberline

                              Comment

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