Joran Van der Hutchinson?

[harry]

The important point to me,is that almost universally,Hutchinson is being viewed as a person who told lies.We just can't agree on the lies.I believe he told three truths,the first of being a resident of the Victoria Home,of being outside Crossingham's at about 2.30am the morning Kelly was killed,and of being an aquaintance of Kelly.

[Rubyretro]

The important point to me,is that almost universally,Hutchinson is being viewed as a person who told lies.We just can't agree on the lies.I believe he told three truths,the first of being a resident of the Victoria Home,of being outside Crossingham's at about 2.30am the morning Kelly was killed,and of being an aquaintance of Kelly.

I'm with you Harry

[Garry Wroe]

Garry,

Cut the crap. We've gone over the plumber thing ad nauseum. You are full of BS. It gets sickening to have to read that kind of dig at someone.
Fisherman has been nothing but sensible, and when he gives a suggestion, you throw the plumber nonsense in. Grow up.

Mike

Hysterical Neurosis: Neurotic disorder characterized by violent emotional outbreaks and disturbances of sensory and motor functions.

Enough said.

[Fisherman]

Ben:

"Please don't tell Caz..."

Deal, Ben - but you owe me one...!

The best,
Fisherman

[Fisherman]

Ben and Abby!

You both say that a man with an exceptional memory for details would not forget about dates. But that is confusing two sorts of memorizing - sequential and detailing - with each other. People with an eminent memory for details may weall have a lousy time memory, and vice versa. They are different things altogether.

The best,
Fisherman

[Rubyretro]

Walking back from Romford would be a pretty good hike...I can't see that it would slip his mind what day he did it on.

Besides which, Ben has already pointed out the 'amazing coincidence' of Mrs Lewis's 'watcher' doing the same thing as Hutch, at the same time, ...but on a different day !

[Ben]

Hi Fish,

There's "lousy" time memory and there's implausibly catastrophic time memory, and if Hutchinson confused the date of the encounter, he would fall into the latter category, in my view. But as my last post explained, this is the least of my concerns with the "different day" hypothessis.

Best regards,
Ben

[The Good Michael]

Ruby,

I just got back from Kyrgyzstan yesterday where I walked around the city of Bishkek for 5 days or so, averaging about 18km of walking each day to various parts of the city. I am neither 22, nor am I a laborer or the son of a plumber. If I can walk that much, George could have skipped it.

Cheers,

Mike

[Fisherman]

Ben:

"There's "lousy" time memory and there's implausibly catastrophic time memory, and if Hutchinson confused the date of the encounter, he would fall into the latter category, in my view."

Maybe so, Ben. I just wanted to point out that you and Abby were comparing apples to pears.

The best,
Fisherman

[harry]

Mike,
But did you walk a distance of 25 miles there and back from Kyrgyzstan.
Now we do not know the distance tramped by Hutchinson around Romford,or around whitechapel on his return,but at a slow rate of perhaps 3 kilometres an hour,one might think that Hutchinson covered a fair piece of ground in excess of the milage there and back.

[Rubyretro]

Ruby,

I just got back from Kyrgyzstan yesterday where I walked around the city of Bishkek for 5 days or so, averaging about 18km of walking each day to various parts of the city. I am neither 22, nor am I a laborer or the son of a plumber. If I can walk that much, George could have skipped it.

Cheers,

Mike

I never said otherwise..I only said that he wouldn't forget when he did it

[Fisherman]

Ruby:

"I only said that he wouldn't forget when he did it"

Why? Because YOU would not forget it, doing the same? Most of us seem to agree that Maxwell erred about the day she saw Kelly. And Maxwell´s distance from the murder was timewise shorter than Hutchinsons.

I do not think that we may allow ourselves to detract George Hutchinson from the potential group of people who could be wrong on a date. Total dogmatism never had anything good to say about those who practice it.

The best,
Fisherman

[richardnunweek]

Hi,
I find it incredible how many members of Casebook , reject two important witnesses, ie Hutchinson /Maxwell, as being most likely mistaken, or in the formers case a liar.
Hutchinson reported to the police on the monday, he would never had gone to the police unless he was absolutely certain he had the right morning, knowing full well that on thursday he walked from Romford.
As for Maxwell , described as a level headed woman ,of good character, she gave her statement on the 9th, just hours after her sighting, her story was verified.
Was she mistaken?, she knew Barnett , she knew they were a couple, kelly was distinctive looking, and she had the weekend to realise any mistake, I would say the murder would have been the talking point of Dorset street.
So if both these witnesses were being honest, what have we.?
Astracan was not her killer, and she met her death around 9am.
Its that simple isnt it?

[Fisherman]

Richard:

"Hutchinson reported to the police on the monday, he would never had gone to the police unless he was absolutely certain he had the right morning, knowing full well that on thursday he walked from Romford."

If he was an honest man, Richard, he would never have gone to the police unless he BELIEVED that he walked from Romford on Thursday night. History tells us that people sometimes get these things wrong. We must allow for that happening in Hutchinsons case too, I´m afraid.

The best,
Fisherman

[Rubyretro]

Ruby:

"I only said that he wouldn't forget when he did it"

Why? Because YOU would not forget it, doing the same? Most of us seem to agree that Maxwell erred about the day she saw Kelly. And Maxwell´s distance from the murder was timewise shorter than Hutchinsons.

I do not think that we may allow ourselves to detract George Hutchinson from the potential group of people who could be wrong on a date. Total dogmatism never had anything good to say about those who practice it.

The best,
Fisherman

It is a long hike, and it was in bad weather. I'm not disputing that a young fit man could do it, and I think that people at this date were used to walking long distances -however, they were only human, and they would be knackered afterwards. I think that they would remember it. This was a man with nearly no money, looking for a job, so I think that he would have in mind that the weekend was coming and what bearing that woud have on his job hunting. Furthermore, the day (early hours)that Mary was killed was the day of the Lord Mayor's show -which would surely help him situate the date as well. It is not logical that he made a mistake on when he watched Kelly's room
-and, for me, it is confirmed by Mrs Lewis's statement.

Neither is it logical that Mrs Maxwell would make a mistake on the date (Lord Mayor's Show). I believe that she was honest, but saw a different Mary Kelly.
Her description of the woman she saw does not accord with the descriptions that we have of 'our' Mary Kelly -a very common irish name, and people seemed to have used alot of aliases at the time.

I'm certainly not 'dogmatic' because I have changed my mind about many things since being on Casebook (the Toppy/Hutch debate being one of them).
If you can convince me that it is even probable that Hutch got the day wrong, or likely that it was just a 'coincidence' that his statement was bourne out by Mrs Lewis's, or some concrete evidence that the Police had to not to consider him a suspect -above and beyond 'they would have...', 'they must have..' *(taking into consideration that the Police made mistakes about witness/suspects in the past, and often enough that they now have a tendancy to look on all volunteer witnesses as potential suspects), then I will chuck him out as my favourite Suspect..

At the end of the day, I am not defending a book , nor planning to, and it makes not one iota of difference to me whether Hutch 'did it' or not -but reading around the Case and debating on Casebook STILL convinces me that
he is the best Suspect that we have.

* without even going into the conjecture on profiling, his lying, where he lived, the implications of possible former jobs and and the murders stopping after MJK etc etc.....