Joran Van der Hutchinson?

[Fisherman]

Garry Wroe:

"But he did slip, Jordan. The day after his police interview a newspaper effectively stated that his story was no longer believed by the authorities. Despite this, however, he doesn't appear to have come under suspicion. Like Packer and others, he seems to have been dismissed as a time waster and forgotten about."

Let´s dissect this a bit:

A/ "He did slip."

Well, either HE slipped, or somebody did the slipping for him. There are two options.

B/ "Despite this, however, he doesn't appear to have come under suspicion. Like Packer and others, he seems to have been dismissed as a time waster and forgotten about."

...meaning that we are either dealing with a very naîve police force - or with surfacing evidence that made it obvious to the police as well as to the press that Hutch did not belong to the investigation. Once again, two choices! And when we make the latter choice, we can take a look at Ben´s post too:

"Inspector Abberline expressed his opinion that the statement was true on the evening of 12th November, well before any detailed analysis or "checking up" on Hutchinson's claims could realistically have occurred. The latter had only made his appearance at 6.00pm that evening."

Now, one of the things I suggest needed no "checking up" was the possibility of an occurence of a man like Astrakhan man. My meaning is that if Abberline swallowed it, hook, line and sinker, then he did so because he was not having much of a problem accepting that such a man could have appeared on Dorset Street. And Abberline was streetwiser than most policemen and detectives! The better argument would be that he grew suspicious of the differences between police report and press articles, when it came to Hutch´s description - but that would not be enough to dismiss him either, at least not before having had a serious discussion with him about it. Very many witness descriptions from the same source differ, and that would have been something Abberline was aware of.
However, if he summoned Hutch once again to clear things up, then he would have done so in full realisation that people confessing to having been at a murder spot and who can later be pinned as liars, are also people the police need to take a very active interest in.

But did he? No, he did not. Just like the obviously lying Packer, Hutchinson was not believed and subsequently discarded. And THAT would have taken evidence on the hands of the police that he could be cleared from suspicion!!

Either Hutch came clear at such a second interrogation and confessed that he had been making things up, delivering a watertight alibi for the night and hour in question, or somebody did it for him. To my mind - and I know that other people for some unfathomable reason choose to use their own minds - this is a much more credible explanation to why Hutch was denied a heroes role in the Ripper affair.

The best,
Fisherman

[Ben]

Hi Jordan,

But he was believed by Inspector Abberline right?

Inspector Abberline expressed his opinion that the statement was true on the evening of 12th November, well before any detailed analysis or "checking up" on Hutchinson's claims could realistically have occurred. The latter had only made his appearance at 6.00pm that evening. As Garry rightly points out, however, the police had apparently dismissed his account by 13th (according to that day's edition of the "Echo"), and on the 15th, The Star ran a brief article dealing with "worthless" stories that have led the police "astray", and in addition to ditching Matthew Packer, they related that Hutchinson's account was "now discredited".

Other serial killers have supplied bogus information to the police - often under the guise of "witnesses" - in order to downplay or mitigate incriminating evidence linking them to the crime in some way, so it wouldn't be unusual for Hutchinson to have adopted a similar ploy if he was the killer.

All the best,
Ben

[ChainzCooper]

But he did slip, Jordan. The day after his police interview a newspaper effectively stated that his story was no longer believed by the authorities. Despite this, however, he doesn't appear to have come under suspicion. Like Packer and others, he seems to have been dismissed as a time waster and forgotten about.

Best wishes.

Garry Wroe.

But he was believed by Inspector Abberline right? Was the newspaper speaking for him when it referred to authorities? I guess thats what I'm trying to get at but I can see how some may think of him as a suspect. I just don't think he is Jack the Ripper
Jordan

[Garry Wroe]

But he did slip, Jordan. The day after his police interview a newspaper effectively stated that his story was no longer believed by the authorities. Despite this, however, he doesn't appear to have come under suspicion. Like Packer and others, he seems to have been dismissed as a time waster and forgotten about.

Best wishes.

Garry Wroe.

[ChainzCooper]

If he came to the realization that he had been seen by Sarah Lewis and feared that, like Lawende before her, Sarah's inquest testimony had been underplayed as part of a deliberate police strategy, it is possible that he came forward in order to provide an innocent explanation for his having been sighted close to a crime scene at a time critical to a Ripper murder. Accordingly, his story concerning Kelly's affluent pick-up would have been an attempt to misdirect the police investigation, thereby leaving himself in the clear and the police searching for a nonexistent suspect.

Regards.

Garry Wroe.

I understand that but I just think its taking a huge and unnecessary gamble handing yourself over to the police like that. He was interviewed at length by Inspector Abberline. If he slipped up or fumbled any at all don't you think the Detective would have put two and two together figuring out he was Kelly's murderer? Therefore I would tend to believe his story was consistent with Abberline and therefore truthful. I see Hutchinson as the most important witness in this case and not a suspect. But its a fun debate Garry nice talking with you
Jordan

[Garry Wroe]

If he came to the realization that he had been seen by Sarah Lewis and feared that, like Lawende before her, Sarah's inquest testimony had been underplayed as part of a deliberate police strategy, it is possible that he came forward in order to provide an innocent explanation for his having been sighted close to a crime scene at a time critical to a Ripper murder. Accordingly, his story concerning Kelly's affluent pick-up would have been an attempt to misdirect the police investigation, thereby leaving himself in the clear and the police searching for a nonexistent suspect.

Regards.

Garry Wroe.

[ChainzCooper]

Interesting theory that George Hutchinson is Jack the Ripper. But why would he come forward to the police and give this witness statement if he was the killer ? Wouldn't he just not come forward at all?
Jordan

[claire]

Stop now, Lynn, thank you

[D.B.Wagstaff]

De Coram

Actually, there is a rumor of a legend of a family oral tradition that De Coram was, in fact, the interior decorator that not only sketced Hutch but decorated Saucy Jack's bolt-hole on orders from a mysterious person (possibly a Mason-Doctor) supposed have connections to the Royal Family. Find De Coram and we stand a good (or at least as good as we ever have) of finding Jack . . .

Just kidding, folks, please don't come at me with knives (sharp, dull, or of any variety of sizes) or bayonets, or surgical tools. And If I am found dead I was most certainly NOT soliciting anything except a bit of gallows humor.

[lynn cates]

decorum

Hello Caz.

"What's decorum?"

De Coram is one of the most talented artists I've ever seen. At any moment she might pop up and do a sketch of Hutch and, . . . , and, . . . , uhm? Oh, sorry. Wrong one.

Cheers.
LC

[caz]

What's decorum?

No chance of any on a Hutch thread, is there?

Love,

Caz
X

[claire]

Completely my fault, Caz...had to bail early and didn't like to do that whole embarrassing, 'I'm off now.' 'Are you? Why?' 'Oh, because blah blah boring information re. self.' [Accompanied by embarrassed hair twirling et c.] 'Oh, okay.' (And other dismal first year undergrad dialogue.)

I am really going to try and bribe family into giving me an exit pass for this next WS meeting, and will def. be more sociable next time!

Hope the evening proceedings went with an appropriate lack of decorum

[caz]

OMG I didn't get you that drink, Claire! I'm sooo embarrassed.

I hope I get another chance if (make that when) you come to a WS1888 meeting.

Good meeting you on Saturday.

Love,

Caz
X

[claire]

Thanks, Caz...I have calmed down now Am organising my logistics for the conference and will, at least, make the Saturday. Look forward to seeing you there (yay, drinks ).

[The Good Michael]

Caz,

I like your style.

Mike