The Red Handkerchief...

[Abby Normal]

Could Hutchinson have been a pimp, or was he waiting to rob Kelly’s customer, or was he a peeping tom, or was he a serial killer who inserted himself in the investigation and was stalking his victim?
Was he investigated by the police (besides being interrogated, which we know about).
Or was he a casual labourer who got back too late to gain admittance to his lodging house and who was kicking his heals on the streets until the morning came?

Hi lech
my first inclination would be that he was an opportunist who, when he could not use Mary kelly for a place to crash, used her murder as an opportunity to make some money.

My second guess would be he was a serial killer, who stalked his victim, waited for the opportune time to kill her, and then inserted himself into the investigation when he discovered that he had been seen.

[Lechmere]

I don't think Kelly would have been the type to let penniless blokes crash at her place, particularly when she was prowling the streets at every waking opportunity looking for punters.
I doubt Hutchinson or anyone else would have expected to be able to crash at her place either.
I think Hutchinson did make a few shillings but suspect that his motivation was more to gain a little local fame so he could dine out on his tales.
I don't accept that he was seen as no one made the connection to Lewis's man.

[John Wheat]

Maybe Hutchinson was waiting around in the hope he'd get free sex with Kelly. The police seem to have thought he was a reliable witness. Although how reliable any witness is, is debatable.

[Lechmere]

I doubt she gave it away for free very often.

[Bridewell]

Sorry
I was responding to both you and Wickerman (Wicky).

No apology needed, Abby, but thank-you for offering! (I now understand the reference to 'wicky'!)

[Bridewell]

It occurs to me that Kelly may not have been over-fond of Hutchinson. He quotes her as saying, "Hutchinson, will you lend me sixpence?" She doesn't offer to sleep with him for money - just asks him for a loan. (Am I reading too much into that?)

[Stephen Thomas]

I don't accept that he was seen as no one made the connection to Lewis's man.

Well, if Cross was JTR then Hutchinson has to be an irrelevance innit?

[Bridewell]

Well, if Cross was JTR then Hutchinson has to be an irrelevance innit?

Unless Kelly was not a JtR killing.

[Lechmere]

Very perceptive Bridewell.
Anyway Hutchinson wasn't irrelevant to his kids.

[Wickerman]

sorry, wrong BW and wicky-faulty reasoning.
it has nothing to do with whether the police made a mistake that make hutch a suspect, or at least suspicious. Its what we know about him.

I wasn't aware anyone in this day 'knew' anything about Hutchinson.
My comment about the police making a mistake refers to the fact Abberline believed him.
This, we are led to believe, was a mistake.

Then you offer two subjective observations:
1 -

Anyone who behaves in stalking behavior toward a victim, admits and is corroborated that he is there at approx. TOD,

2 -

....gives a descrption that on its face is highly dubious (no other witnes in the entire case comes close to decribing a situation with any of the detail and events like hutch),

....and has no ALIBI should be considered a supect or person of interest.

Did you forget that we have no police file concerning Hutchinson. We do not know what he told the police as to where he spent the night or with whom.
Remember, he was never questioned when he wrote that voluntary statement.

This is another example Abby of how a false case is built up against a witness, a case based on nothing factual but only 'ifs', 'buts' and 'maybe's'.

....abberline may have beleived him initially, perhaps came to doubt, even suspect, but if there is nothing else to go on-what can he do? you cant charge him any way.

Where is there any evidence that Abberline changed his mind?
Isn't this more supposition?

Bottom line-what we DO know about hutch and his situation- its suspicious. The stalking behaviour alone should make him suspicios, let alone the other red flags.

Wouldn't it be true to say a large portion of mature males living in the East End could be said to act suspicious at times?, afterall, this was not Kensington Gardens.

Whether Hutchinson had suspicious intent, towards Kelly or her client, is a different matter than accusing him of being a murderer. I think the two are being confused here.

[Wickerman]

... My point is that all things considered, what we do know about hutch now, and even if you leave out the beleiveability of his desription of Aman, is that he is suspicious, or at least should be, no? Stalking behavior of the victim, places himself in proximity at TOD, no alibi etc?

Hi Abby.
I don't get what it is you think we 'know' about Hutchinson.
Everything we think we know is what he told us, via either the police or press.
You say he is suspicious, but it is not necessarily him who is suspicious, but you who are suspicious of him, there's the difference.

A couple of years previous Mary Kelly lived down the Ratcliffe Hwy in a home where the owner had stables in Romford. Hutchinson was a groom, with connections to Romford.
Hutchinson claimed to have known her three years (or so).
Did you ever consider that there was a natural connection between the two of them?, would this still make him a stalker, looking after an old friend?

When you read his statement, it is not clear on that November morning whether Hutchinson thought the client lived in Millers Court, or Kelly lived there. Hutch never said he knew where Kelly lived, but he did say he thought this client lived in the area. Perhaps he thought Millers Court was the home of the client, so he was waiting for Mary to emerge after her rendezvous, to carry on their chat, or even walk her home?
Waiting 45 minutes (approx) is not so unusual now.

[richardnunweek]

Hi,
Jon has made a very interesting point, something which I for. one has never considered.What indeed if he did not actually know where Mary lived?
It is not inconceivable that when Hutchinson followed the couple . he had no inkling where they were going, he simply followed them to Dorset street, and they walked up the passage into Millers court.
Indeed he may have believed that Kelly would then venture out into the street, shortly after..and as this did not materialize , he walked off.
This scenario is of course going against the grain, but we do not know all the facts of the initial statement, only the finished product,and Hutchinson may have not been aware that it was Kelly's room ,until informed by the police..
Regards Richard.

[GUT]

G'Day Richard and Jon

Hutch may not even have known what was up the Court [though I have my doubts about that] and though that she was just like the other[?] taking a client up the nearest dark courtyard.

[Garry Wroe]

When you read his statement, it is not clear on that November morning whether Hutchinson thought the client lived in Millers Court, or Kelly lived there.

Hutchinson's police statement has Kelly inviting Astrakhan into Miller's Court and providing the reassurance that Astrakhan will be comfortable. Seems pretty clear to me.

[GUT]

G'Day Garry

Could it have been a reference to sex? A bit like you'll be right.