The Red Handkerchief...

[Ben]

Not to stray too far off-topic, Tecs, but such is the similarity between the ripper's crimes and those of known serial killers acting out of a desire for personal gratification (usually sexual) that any other suggested "motive" must be considered extremely unlikely, in my opinion. On this point, at least, there appears to be no dispute amongst the criminology experts who have studied the case - Douglas, Keppel.

Mutilating serial killers being motivated chiefly by monetary gain is practically unheard of.

All the best,
Ben

[Tecs]

Hi Tecs
I don't think its that far out either. as a matter of fact Ive put the idea out there that Tumbety was the American dr looking for specimans that Baxter alluded to at the inquest. Perhaps him and Chapman being in the "medical" field hooked up and Dr T was paying him to get the said specimans.

of course its total speculation and dosnt explain all the peripheral cuts and mutilations the ripper did. and of course we are totally off topic. but to reel it back in I don't think Abberlines theory is so off the mark.

I usually agree with Ben 98% of the time but not on this one. Dr T or not, someone may(Very slight may I admit) have paid chapman to do it, or someone else. I doubt it but not so far fetched I think.

Hi Abby,

Imagine if Tumblety used the alias Pedachenko!!!

I've often wondered if Tumblety was the American doctor too and if so, and we assume he wasn't the ripper, he would need an accomplice. I agree with you, it's an underconsidered angle.


regards,

[Tecs]

Not to stray too far off-topic, Tecs, but such is the similarity between the ripper's crimes and those of known serial killers acting out of a desire for personal gratification (usually sexual) that any other suggested "motive" must be considered extremely unlikely, in my opinion. On this point, at least, there appears to be no dispute amongst the criminology experts who have studied the case - Douglas, Keppel.

Mutilating serial killers being motivated chiefly by monetary gain is practically unheard of.

All the best,
Ben

Hi Ben,

The first thing I would say is that we have to be very careful when taking expert opinion as the end of the matter. I'm not sure if it was Douglas or Keppel themselves but certainly their ilk got the Washington sniper totally wrong. The psychiatrists who assessed Sutcliffe said that he was a paranoid schizophrenic which the jury, correctly in my opinion, disagreed with (even without the extra evidence that came to light later that supported him simply being an evil sexually motivated killer.)

But that leads on to a fascinating point. In my opinion there is no real expert on this. Although there are parallels there are no real murderers that compare with JTR. He was part serial killer, part spree killer and a whole load of bits inbetween! What I mean is, serial killers usually have a "reign" that lasts for years, BTK, Green River, Yorkshire Ripper etc or they go on a spree Michael Ryan, Dunblane etc. But JTR seems to be a bit of both. He came out of nowhere, blitzed the area for 10 weeks and then dissapeared. Bit more than a spree, but not really a reign either. To me that suggests something a bit different than most. (Unless he just went under the wheels of a carriage on 10th November!)



regards,

[Abby Normal]

Not to stray too far off-topic, Tecs, but such is the similarity between the ripper's crimes and those of known serial killers acting out of a desire for personal gratification (usually sexual) that any other suggested "motive" must be considered extremely unlikely, in my opinion. On this point, at least, there appears to be no dispute amongst the criminology experts who have studied the case - Douglas, Keppel.

Mutilating serial killers being motivated chiefly by monetary gain is practically unheard of.

All the best,
Ben

as usual that's a great point Ben.

[Wickerman]

Take that clip, reduce its "illuminating" power by half, and that's what Hutchinson would have been relying on for his red hanky sighting from 125 feet away (thanks again, Jon!).

You're welcome Ben.
Though there wasn't a hundred and twenty five feet between them when he passed under his nose outside the Queens Head.

[Sam Flynn]

Hello Ben

We know what 500 candle power looks like, because it is available for viewing in two separate videos

But that would only tell us about what the camera can see. We can't rely on a video to understand the potential of a human eye/brain combo under such circumstances.

[Wickerman]

Mutilating serial killers being motivated chiefly by monetary gain is practically unheard of.

It doesn't need to be common. The Whitechapel murders were unique, opportunistic and motiveless.
The crimes of Burke and Hare were unique, opportunistic and motiveless.

In this context 'motive' is not something directly associated with the victim, like love, hate, revenge, or a mugging, etc.

This is what the result can be when the motivation is merely monetary gain.
The market for such an organ is not required, in fact that realization may be the prime reason the murders ended.

I'm not defending the theory by any means, merely pointing out it cannot be so readily dismissed, the perpetrator was after all unbalanced.

[DJA]

Venturing to Romford,being a famous place for leather breeches, once meant purchasing a new pair of trousers.

Ditto bell bottoms,if a sailor.

[DJA]

It doesn't need to be common. The Whitechapel murders were unique, opportunistic and motiveless.
The crimes of Burke and Hare were unique, opportunistic and motiveless.

Burke and Hare sold their 16 corpses to Robert Knox,a lecturer in anatomy.

If you believe WE Gladstone's letter to The Times,our Jack was cutting out the middlemen....oops!

[Wickerman]

Burke and Hare sold their 16 corpses to Robert Knox,a lecturer in anatomy.

If you believe WE Gladstone's letter to The Times,our Jack was cutting out the middlemen....oops!

Exactly, which is why I included the line you chose to omit...

"In this context 'motive' is not something directly associated with the victim, like love, hate, revenge, or a mugging, etc."

The Burking motive was not a personal one like love, hate, revenge, etc. These were the kind of motives the police naturally investigated and found wanting.

[DJA]

It doesn't need to be common. The Whitechapel murders were unique, opportunistic and motiveless.
The crimes of Burke and Hare were unique, opportunistic and motiveless.

In this context 'motive' is not something directly associated with the victim, like love, hate, revenge, or a mugging, etc.

This is what the result can be when the motivation is merely monetary gain.
The market for such an organ is not required, in fact that realization may be the prime reason the murders ended.

I'm not defending the theory by any means, merely pointing out it cannot be so readily dismissed, the perpetrator was after all unbalanced.

Jack the Ripper's murders may have been relatively unique,however they were neither opportunistic or motiveless on his behalf.

You surmise Jack was the hunter.

Ever considered it may have been the other way around!

[Oscar D'Oslavah]

Hello Ben
But that would only tell us about what the camera can see. We can't rely on a video to understand the potential of a human eye/brain combo under such circumstances.

Yes, Sam, I'm with you on this one. Any piece of photographic equipment I've ever used allows manual exposure controls. Shoot at two stops overexposed and the film's location looks dazzlingly bright, shoot at two under and it's murky. So any video is only as good as the exposure settings. And as you say above, the human eye has a much higher contrast range than film--I'm guessing even moreso for video. So something that looks clear but dim to you might be unseen on the film.

BTW, I laughed out loud at your message, early in this thread, about rabbis and carrots. ;-)

[Rosemary]

Wel

Jack the Ripper's murders may have been relatively unique,however they were neither opportunistic or motiveless on his behalf.

You surmise Jack was the hunter.

Ever considered it may have been the other way around!

How so, since I'm a newbie & completely confused with all info swirling in this tiny brain? Meant to say WELL...

[DJA]

Meant to say WELL...

We have five women murdered,seemingly with no motive.

They are penniless,with one exception.

The murderer displays remarkable dissecting skills.

The chances are that he is in a well paid position.

Who is likely hunting who!

Ever considered a police cover up!

Hutchinson's story is possibly part of that.

[Sam Flynn]

BTW, I laughed out loud at your message, early in this thread, about rabbis and carrots. ;-)

Thanks, Oscar - one does one's best