Hutchinson reading the Times?

[Robert]

And then I said, yeah, I'm gonna kill you, yeah, and she said yeah yeah yeah yeah and I said no I'm serious, yeah, I'm gonna killer you, yeah. And I did. End of.

And then as I was going out the door,yeah, I said get over it.

I mean I wasn't disrespecting her, yeah, but my social worker didn't turn up this week and I was feeling iffy, yeah. You can't get the staff these days.

[ChainzCooper]

I love these theories about Hutchinson being the Ripper like a serial killer is really going to attempt to volunteer himself to authorities as a witness to a murder he committed. I just don't buy it
Jordan

[lynn cates]

vernacular, part 3

Hello Robert.

Yeah, bro. Straight.

Cheers.
LC

[lynn cates]

serials

Hello Jordan.

"like a serial killer is really going to attempt to volunteer himself to authorities as a witness to a murder he committed."

I have been given to understand precisely this about serial killers.

Of course, a cogent question may be, "What do serial killers have to do with Hutchinson--or the WCM, for that matter?"

Cheers.
LC

[Hunter]

There is plenty of evidence of a serial killer having something to do with the WM... not conclusive, but the evidence is there. Any series of this unusual nature could be linked in that way, just as plausibly - or even more - than any other hypothetical scenarios.

If serial murderers never existed, then there might be some basis to consider otherwise and refute the idea of a linkage to a common murderer.

[lynn cates]

modal logic

Hello Cris. Thanks.

In which case the question would not be:

"What do serial killers have to do with Hutchinson--or the WCM, for that matter?"

but rather

"What could serial killers have to do with Hutchinson--or the WCM, for that matter?"

Cheers.
LC

[ChainzCooper]

I don't think George Hutchinson has any thing to do with serial killers aside from seeing one with a friend and telling police about it
Jordan

[Ben]

Hi Debs,

A bit late to the party here, but many thanks indeed for this! Here we have a potential additional source for the Astrakhan invention (if that is what it was, and the evidently overwhelmingly points that way). Hutchinson had free access to a variety of newspapers at the common room of the Victoria Home, and they doubtless included the Daily News, where this suspiciously similar account appeared on the 10th November:

There are conflicting statements as to when the woman was last seen alive, but that upon which most reliance appears to be placed is that of a young woman, an associate of the deceased, who states that at about half past 10 o'clock on Thursday night she met the murdered woman at the corner of Dorset street. Kelly informed her that she had no money, and it was then she said that if she could not get any she would never go out any more, but would do away with herself. Soon after they parted, and a man who is described as respectably dressed came up and spoke to the murdered woman Kelly and offered her some money. The man accompanied the woman to her lodgings, which are on the second floor, the little boy being sent to a neighbour's house.

Note that "murdered woman Kelly" is a verbatim quote from Hutchinson's statement.

a well-dressed man was already seen that same Friday morning by both Sarah Lewis and Mrs Kennedy, so that was no great revelation.

No, Jon.

Lewis never said anything about her man being "well-dressed", and Kennedy wasn't even a genuine witness. She simply parrotted Lewis' account as her own experience.

The other 'well-dressed man' sighting, by McCarthy

...is also nonsense.

McCarthy did not see Kelly in Ringers on Thursday night at 11.00pm or else he'd have said so at the inquest. More to the point, it was reported that after an extensive investigation, no landlord in the area remembered serving or seeing Kelly that night.

How many well-dressed young men loitered around the Britannia that night?

None.

Apart from the discredited press tattle, of course.

The fly in the ointment seems to be that "unverified" sighting of Blotchy (and his unique appearance) by Cox.

By "fly in the ointment", you presumably mean the only piece of reliable inquest evidence regarding a legitimate suspect seen with Kelly? Interesting that you describe it as "unverified", while accepting as apparent gospel the second-hand piece of bogus hearsay wrongly attributed to McCarthy in the odd press report. And "unique appearance"? A shabbily dressed man with ginger fuzz? Not really.

I love these theories about Hutchinson being the Ripper like a serial killer is really going to attempt to volunteer himself to authorities as a witness to a murder he committed.

You need to conduct some research, Chainz, lest you offer an ill-informed opinion such as this one. Serial killers have come forward voluntarily as "witnesses" or informants to their own murder investigations. It's a reality whether you "buy it" or not.

[Wickerman]

You need to conduct some research, Chainz, lest you offer an ill-informed opinion such as this one. Serial killers have come forward voluntarily as "witnesses" or informants to their own murder investigations. It's a reality whether you "buy it" or not.

Like everything you write, your conclusion is the result of assumption.

Murder and the characteristics of the modern murderer have also evolved over time. You jump to the unproven conclusion that because a modern killer may conduct himself in this way that the first(?) serial killer MUST have done likewise.

When you try to sell these assumptions please support your thinking by providing 19th century crimes which demonstrate your case. Otherwise, resist the temptation to confuse the two.

[Ben]

Still going, Jon?

Jolly good. I was getting bored...

Murder and the characteristics of the modern murderer have also evolved over time.

Not the characteristics that make them human.

For that to be true, you might as well argue for the abandonment of any future stage production of Shakespeare on the grounds that it was too long ago, and human behaviour has "evolved" since then. Or you can accept that you're just plain wrong, and that both our capacity for self-preservation and the creative steps we might take in that direction haven't changed a bit. The only difference is our modern ability to document this particular trait as having been exhibited by many serial killers over the decades since 1888. Obviously, this wouldn't have been available to Abberline that November.

I wonder how many experts in the field of psychology and criminology would agree with your assessment that we can't make inferences about an 1888 serial killer on the basis of known traits shared by modern offenders? About as many "well-dressed" men outside the Britannia, probably!

And no, Jack was not the first serial killer, no "(?)" about it.

[GUT]

G'Day all

Does anybody seriously doubt that killers, serial or otherwise, or indeed criminals in general, have at times become involved in police investigations. Even "helped" search for the victim. If you do (doubt that is) please do some real research before commenting.

GUT

[Ben]

Very well said, Gut!

[Wickerman]

G'Day all

Does anybody seriously doubt that killers, serial or otherwise, or indeed criminals in general, have at times become involved in police investigations. Even "helped" search for the victim. If you do (doubt that is) please do some real research before commenting.

GUT

Show me

[GUT]

G'Day Wickerman

I'll have to look up the case name, but just last year there was one that springs to mind in Australia where the killer joined the police to0 search for one of his victims bodies.

How do I know he was the killer?

He plead guilty.

GUT

[GUT]

G'Day Wickerman

There was also the murder of Ebony Simpson in 1990's, where Andrew Garford, who latter confessed, took police to the body, plead guilty and was sentenced to life without parole by Peter Newman.

GUT