Are the reports in the contempory newpapers sufficient to discredit Hutchinson?

[Observer]

Again, I only know of one such report, above. If a forum member could direct us to any others, it would be appreciated. Otherwise, the tally is...one.

Roy

Hi Roy, I remembered Gary Wroe's revelation about the London Echo story which is why I reffered to newspapers as opposed to newspapaper. If you look at the link provided by Gary's post #15 you'll see his post dated 9th June 2009. You'll also notice that Ben actually replied to Gary, in the very next post , so he knew in June that more than one newspaper cast doubt on Hutchinsons statement, at that time. I do not know when Ben informed you of a single newspaper report, but if it was after June 2009, then I can only assume that the exchange he had in June slipped his mind.

all the best

Observer

[Phil Carter]

Phil,
I like to believe Abberline was not just a very good detective but also honest and decent which I think he mostly was ,but in 1889 during the Cleveland Case he turned a blind eye to someone avoiding jail and fleeing to France---so who knows-
Best
Norma

Hello Norma,

Yes, I would DEARLY like to believe it too. Your last line tells me one reason why I just can't.

I don't believe MacNaghten who told red herrings..(Druitt, Ostrog)
I don't believe Anderson who..well.. for obvious reasons
I don't believe Abberline (above)
Neil ?... Just guesswork.. Dew?.. oh dear...
Smith?...Griffiths...the list goes on and on. The only one who has ever not said he had a personal suspect yet mentioned a name, Littlechild, in mentioning Tumblety, at least kept his personal opinion to himself.

Oh I WISH I could put my trust in ONE of these men's words. But the fact that they all have, at the present moment of writing, got it wrong, and some of them in their behaviour in this case is well, remarkable to say the least, leaves me with a distinct taste in my mouth. Distrust.

best wishes

Phil

[Natalie Severn]

Phil,
I do agree!
Best
Norma



Observer,
You are quite right,actually both Ben and Sam found extracts from a couple of newspapers at the time------I remember it happening too!
Norma

[DVV]

David,
What do you make of the description Arthur Neil quotes and Philip Sugden highlights that I posted above a few minutes ago?[writing in 1932 bear in mind but an ex superintendent who worked on the Chapman case]

"..... same height,deep sunk black eyes,sallow complexion and thick black moustache" [he"s likening Chapman to the description but ignore that for the moment]

Wouldnt you agree that it sounds quite a lot like Hutchinson"s description?And if so then clearly the police did not reject Hutchinson"s description outright but kept it on hold----or at least in their own memories.

Frankly spoken, Norma, Chapman is one of the handful of suspects I consider viable, but I don't believe in Mr Astrakhan.
To me, JtR is Sailor Man.

Amitiés,
David

[Tom_Wescott]

Hi Tom, or Elizabeth Long,

I prefer 'Tom', thank you. She didn't see her man's face and would be useless as a witness for identification purposes. And what exactly was Garry Wroe's 'revelation'? I don't really keep up with all the Hutch stuff, so no doubt I've missed a thing or two that's worthwhile.

Yours truly,

Tom Wescott

[DVV]

It's in Garry's post, Tom. The Star wasn't the sole paper to discredit Hutch - or rather: to say Hutch was discredited.

Amitiés,
David

[DVV]

As regards Hutchinson... I have grave doubts as to whether he even existed. Phil

Hi Phil,

a real man entered the Station on Monday 12 Nov, at about 6, I have no doubt about that.
And I'm also pretty confident it wasn't Toppy.
It wasn't either Hutchinson the cabinet-maker.
Nor Hutch the butcher.

Amitiés,
David

[Phil Carter]

Hello David,

Ahh, you mean, Mons. Fleming non?

best wishes

Phil

[DVV]

I confess I do, Phil.
I understand that most posters might be irritated by other posters' suspects, but...
I spent months, really, thinking about the possible Hutch/ Fleming identity, tried my best to forget it, but I couldn't...truly.
Nobody named Hutch is more likely to be Hutch than Fleming, as strange or shocking as it seems.
These days, I often shut my mouth about the Miller's Court murder cos I think it's not fair to pollute a thread with a suspect-biaised approach...
But in fact, JtR was X, and no-one else...and necessarily, once you've found him, sadly, everything fits.

Amitiés mon cher Phil,
David

[Observer]

I prefer 'Tom', thank you. She didn't see her man's face and would be useless as a witness for identification purposes. And what exactly was Garry Wroe's 'revelation'? I don't really keep up with all the Hutch stuff, so no doubt I've missed a thing or two that's worthwhile.

Yours truly,

Tom Wescott

Hi Tom

Regarding Gary Wroe's findings, see DiVV's post above.

Long passed closer to Chapman and her suspect than did Lawende to his suspect and Eddowes. Lawende did state that he would not know the man again. As for the worth of their sightings, I don't personally believe there's a great deal of difference, Lawende having a slight edge, for he saw his suspects face.

all the best

Observer

[DVV]

Hi Observer,

Mrs Long could recognise a Jew by a mere glance at his back.
She's obviouly the best witness.
Who else ?

Amitiés,
David

[Roy Corduroy]

Hi Observer and Gary,

I appreciate the helpful information. So there were two such reports, the Nov 13 Echo and the Nov 15 Star. Up to speed now, thanks to you. Carry on.

Roy

(shades of the Toffs thread)

[Sox]

One important thing to bear in mind with these descriptions. Police never follow a single line of inquiry unless they have a prime suspect, giving out a fresh description would not have meant that a previous one had been discounted, despite what the papers say.

[Observer]

Hi David. Mrs Long didn't refer to the man she saw with Annie chapman as being Jewish, she reffered to him as looking like a foreigner. Something about his appearance obviously struck a cord with her, there were a lot of them about in that area at that time, and seeing as Mrs Long lived among them I'd say she would have been fairly well qualified to pick out a foreigner. And if you'll notice I do prefer Lawende as a witness over Long, marginally, but Lawende's description is slightly of more worth.

all the best

Observer

[DVV]

Hello Observer,

well...I don't know...
I've always thought Mrs Long had in mind all that stuff about Leather Apron, when she said "foreigner", "over 40".

Amitiés,
David