Are the reports in the contempory newpapers sufficient to discredit Hutchinson?

[DVV]

But how do you know this is a direct quote from Hutch and not just something pulled together?

At least, the Sunday sighting must come from Hutch.

There's no way the police would have seen so many discrepancies and have let him just go on his way.

Not so sure, if they came to consider him a crank.

Some people have strange thoughts.
Clint Eastwood believe the Boks have really won the Cup in 1995.

Amitiés,
David

[The Good Michael]

Then Hutch talked to the press, ruining thus the police efforts. Not to mention his incredible Sunday sighting and the changes in the suspect's features.

What else could have discredited Hutch ?

But how do you know this is a direct quote from Hutch and not just something pulled together? If it came from Hutch, and he got so many things wrong, we would certainly be able to dismiss him from suspicion of murder. There's no way the police would have seen so many discrepancies and have let him just go on his way.

Cheers,

Mike

[DVV]

There's a difference between the importance police attribute to witnesses in the immediate aftermath of a murder, and months later when the investigation is not under so much public and press pressure.

Hi Jason,

the problem with Hutch is that he seems to have been discredited within a few days - 2 or 3.
Faster than Packer.

Amitiés,
David

[DVV]

David,

I believe that his testimony was checked out and that it was a futile effort. I also believe we don't know either way and such a mistake-ridden article doesn't help matters.

Cheers,

Mike

On the contrary, it helps, Mike.

The police believed Hutch, and tried to find the suspect with his assistance.
Then Hutch talked to the press, ruining thus the police efforts. Not to mention his incredible Sunday sighting and the changes in the suspect's features.

What else could have discredited Hutch ?

Amitiés,
David

[jason_c]

Hi Obs,

Mrs. Long did not see the man's face and never claimed to be an 'identifying' witness' the way Schwartz and Hutchinson did. Neither did Lawende, and yet he's the sole witness used for identification. I'd say the evidence is pretty strong that the police came to see Hutch as a crank witness, although I couldn't tell you why.

Yours truly,

Tom Wescott

The timing of his sighting could be one reason. Assuming Astrakhan existed ive never thought of him as Kelly's killer. It would require him to have been with Kelly for a number of hours IF we take 4 am as her time of death.

There's a difference between the importance police attribute to witnesses in the immediate aftermath of a murder, and months later when the investigation is not under so much public and press pressure.

[The Good Michael]

I simply suggest that Hutch's interview led the police to consider him a crank witness - as Tom said.

David,

I believe that his testimony was checked out and that it was a futile effort. I also believe we don't know either way and such a mistake-ridden article doesn't help matters.

Cheers,

Mike

[Garry Wroe]

Hi Roy.

If you'd care to follow the following link

http://forum.casebook.org/showthread.php?p=91304&highlight=wroe#post91304

to post number 26, you'll find the details of another press report that called into question Hutchinson's stated version of events.

Regards.

Garry Wroe.

[DVV]

David,
Wow! Looks like another thread.

It doesn't, Mike.
I simply suggest that Hutch's interview led the police to consider him a crank witness - as Tom said.

As for me, I know Hutch was a good guy. His son had many good things to say about him.

Perhaps Winston Churchill loved his father too. I haven't read his memoirs, although he got the Nobel.

Amitiés,
David

[The Good Michael]

Unless it is a faithful transcription of Hutch's words to the press.

David,

Wow! Looks like another thread. As for me, I know Hutch was a good guy. His son had many good things to say about him.

Mike

[DVV]

This newspaper article must be discredited surely.

Mike

Unless it is a faithful transcription of Hutch's words to the press.

Amitiés,
David

[The Good Michael]

Another story now discredited is that of the man Hutchinson, who said that on Friday morning last he saw Kelly with a dark-complexioned, middle-aged, foreign-looking, bushy-eyebrowed gentleman, with the dark moustache turned up at the ends, who wore the soft felt hat, the long dark coat, trimmed with astrachan, the black necktie, with horseshoe pin, and the button boots, and displayed a massive gold watch-chain, with large seal and a red stone attached.

Let's compare it with Hutchinson's statement:

Description age about 34 or 35. height 5ft6 complexion pale, dark eyes and eye lashes slight moustache, curled up each end, and hair dark, very surley looking dress long dark coat, collar and cuffs trimmed astracan. And a dark jacket under. Light waistcoat dark trousers dark felt hat turned down in the middle. Button boots and gaiters with white buttons. Wore a very thick gold chain white linen collar. Black tie with horse shoe pin. Respectable appearance walked very sharp. Jewish appearance.

What?

Middle-aged? Dark Complexioned? Bushy-eyebrowed? Soft hat? Foreign-looking? (don't get me started on foreign/Jewish)

This newspaper article must be discredited surely.

Cheers,

Mike

[Monty]

Hi Obs,

Mrs. Long did not see the man's face and never claimed to be an 'identifying' witness' the way Schwartz and Hutchinson did. Neither did Lawende, and yet he's the sole witness used for identification. I'd say the evidence is pretty strong that the police came to see Hutch as a crank witness, although I couldn't tell you why.

Yours truly,

Tom Wescott

Tom,

Erm, Lewande did see his face mate.

The first publication of the description of the man seen by Lawende was in the Times on 2 October - "of shabby appearance, about 30 years of age and 5ft. 9in. in height, of fair complexion, having a small fair moustache, and wearing a red neckerchief and a cap with a peak".

Report by Donald Swanson, dated 19 October 1888, has Lawende description of the man with a woman in Church Passage as "age 30 ht. 5 ft. 7 or 8 in. comp. fair fair moustache, medium built, dress pepper & salt colour loose jacket, grey cloth cap with peak of same colour, reddish handkerchief tied in a knot, round neck, appearance of a sailor."

However, Lewande did state he may not recognise the man if he saw him again. Thats not to say he wouldnt have...which is what I think the Police were banking on.

Also, at the inquest Lawendes description of the man was witheld though he did say he had passed the description to the Police, hence Swansons report.

Monty


PS Tom, thousand apologies, I just got what you were saying there mate. Excuse my stupidity.

[Roy Corduroy]

Hi Observer,

Your thread title seems to indicate there was more than one news report discrediting Hutchinson's story. You said reports in newspapers. I only know of one report in one newspaper, which I learned of by asking Ben, who was kind enough to direct me to it. From the Nov 15 Star:

WHITECHAPEL.
Worthless Stories Lead the Police on False Scents - Scares also Keep Them Busy.

The only new thing to report this morning in connection with the Miller's-court murder - except the arrest of more innocent men - is another story told by Matthew Packer, the man on whose statement with respect to the Berner-street crime, the discredited "grape story" was built up. Now he says that two men came to him the other day and asked him to describe the man who bought the grapes, and that after he had done so one of the strangers expressed the conviction that the murderer was his cousin, who had come from America, termed everybody "boss," and one day referring to some Whitechapel women said he meant to

"CUT THEIR THROATS AND RIP THEM UP"

as they had been accustomed to do "where he came from." The reporter to whom Packer made his statement sent off a copy of it to the Home Secretary, and also to the Chief Commissioner of the City Police. This morning it was officially stated that the information has not led to any result.

Another story now discredited is that of the man Hutchinson, who said that on Friday morning last he saw Kelly with a dark-complexioned, middle-aged, foreign-looking, bushy-eyebrowed gentleman, with the dark moustache turned up at the ends, who wore the soft felt hat, the long dark coat, trimmed with astrachan, the black necktie, with horseshoe pin, and the button boots, and displayed a massive gold watch-chain, with large seal and a red stone attached.

As we have already said, the only piece of information of any value which has yet transpired is the description given by the widow Cox of a man - short, stout, with a blotchy face and a carroty moustache - who at midnight on Thursday went with the murdered woman into her room.

Again, I only know of one such report, above. If a forum member could direct us to any others, it would be appreciated. Otherwise, the tally is...one.

Roy

[DVV]

I'd say the evidence is pretty strong that the police came to see Hutch as a crank witness, although I couldn't tell you why.

Yours truly,

Tom Wescott

We have evidences for that, Tom.
It's all in his cranky statements to the press.

The very fact that he talked to the press at such a crucial time, while he was supposedly searching the suspect in the district, is incredible.

Amitiés,
David

Amitiés,
David

[Observer]

Hi Tom, you're probably correct regarding Hutchinson. I'd like more concrete evidence though if we are to believe that the police discredited him out of hand.

all the best

Observer