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  • second Toppy/Hutch were do we stand...

    sorry folks i left out an option...please reply to this one...
    23
    Absolutely sure without a shadow of a doubt they are the same.
    26.09%
    6
    It's probable, but nothing definite can be established.
    13.04%
    3
    It's a possibilty that cannot be ruled out. That's as far as the evidence takes us.
    26.09%
    6
    There just isnt enough evidence to make up my mind either way.
    21.74%
    5
    Not a cat in hell's chance of being the same!
    13.04%
    3
    babybird

    There is only one happiness in life葉o love and be loved.

    George Sand

  • #2
    Can't be bothered now

    Comment


    • #3
      grrrrrrrrrrrrrrr

      Rob !!!!

      I can easily go off people you know!!
      babybird

      There is only one happiness in life葉o love and be loved.

      George Sand

      Comment


      • #4
        Jen, I'm the only bugger who's voted!!

        Comment


        • #5
          haha

          there, Rob, i have joined you now...you are not alone. Everyone else is probably voting on the defective poll...
          babybird

          There is only one happiness in life葉o love and be loved.

          George Sand

          Comment


          • #6
            At least people know where we stand.

            Comment


            • #7
              well Rob...

              only the few are well-endowed with bravery...we should stand proud i think!
              babybird

              There is only one happiness in life葉o love and be loved.

              George Sand

              Comment


              • #8
                oooo

                someone else sneaked in....i wonder who...
                babybird

                There is only one happiness in life葉o love and be loved.

                George Sand

                Comment


                • #9
                  I voted No.

                  Jen

                  I voted 'No' since I consider it unlikely. I'm not sure it's exactly a case of 'not a cat in Hell's chance' but I liked the phrase - so that swayed me!

                  What I'm not sure I do see, is that even if Toppy=Hutch, it would rule him out as the killer? I expect that view to be posted elsewhere in due course. Just doesn't follow, for me.

                  There are too many issues to claim a positive I.D. for me - I think that's where I stand right now. Not least of these is that Hutchinson may not have been the 'real' name of the Dorset Street witness - you only have to look at the multitude of names by which some of the people involved in this case were known to see that it wouldn't have been uncommon at all to go by more than one.

                  It would be an incredibly lucky strike if Toppy=Hutch - but it wouldn't mean he wasn't the Whitechapel Murderer imo - I think that's just naive.

                  All the best

                  Jane x

                  Comment


                  • #10
                    I prefer not to vote, the reason being that I respect Leanders wording that no full opinion can be formed from the material existing. Therefore, we cannot be dead sure that Toppy was Hutch.
                    If I had been provided with the option "As it stands, everything points to a match", I would have opted for it though. My stance would take me to some place inbetween options one and two, I believe.

                    Fisherman

                    Comment


                    • #11
                      hahaha

                      how hilarious!
                      babybird

                      There is only one happiness in life葉o love and be loved.

                      George Sand

                      Comment


                      • #12
                        Jane Welland writes:

                        "What I'm not sure I do see, is that even if Toppy=Hutch, it would rule him out as the killer?"

                        Of course it doesnエt, Jane - as for me, I am of the opinion that there may have been an element of aquiantance inbetween Kelly and her killer. One of the pointers in this direction would be Bondエs suggestion that the sheet had been used to cover Kellys face as the killer cut away at it.
                        And Hutchinsons admits - whether true or not, we canエt tell of course - that he gave her money every now and then, something that seems to point to them knowing each other rather well. So even if Toppy was the witness, it can never put him in the clear for the murder/s. Just like Ben pointed out in a rational post earlier, we have people like Dennis Rader who upheld a marriage during his years as a serial killer. And there are heaps of other examples of people having relationships with women, marriages and friendships, throughout history, in spite of actively killing: Krten, Collins, Christie, the Green River killer ...

                        And wouldnエt it be fantastic if we could actually put a face on the Ripper, after all these years? Not that I really think it was Toppy though - my gut feeling tells me that heエs in the clear. But such a thing needs to be proven, and that is something none of us can accomplish!

                        The best, Jane!
                        Fisherman

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                        • #13
                          Agreed, Fish and Jane.

                          Even in the event that Hutchinson was Toppy, it wouldn't markedly reduce his suspect status, since many serial killers (see Fish's examples) conveyed the outward impression of an average family man or doting husband. It has been observed that Toppy played the violin - so did Reinhard Heydrich! Stictly hypthetical, of course, bearing in mind my overall sentiments on the Toppy issue, but interesting nonetheless.

                          Best regards,
                          Ben

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                          • #14
                            Hi,
                            I can just see Topping sitting on Kellys bed, producing the said violin, and the sounds of 'Abide with me' coming through the broken pane.
                            Ben, If you believe that Topping was Kellys killer, you are not doing yourself justice, that idea is so unrealistic, it is a non starter.
                            If Topping was not the witness, and he fabricated the whole story, then it obviously becomes more a possibility.
                            Regards Richard.

                            Comment


                            • #15
                              Hi Richard,

                              I can just see Topping sitting on Kellys bed, producing the said violin, and the sounds of 'Abide with me' coming through the broken pane.
                              That's a misheard lyric, I'm afraid. The violin-accompanied song was actually "I lied with glee".

                              Easy mistake to make.

                              I don't think Toppy was Kelly's killer, but what would be so unrealistic about it?

                              All the best,
                              Ben

                              Comment

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