Hutchinson's sunday

[Sam Flynn]

Was not Hutchinson a long term aquaintance of Kelly. He admits to knowing her before their arrival in Whitechapel

If her biography (as recalled by Joe Barnett) is to be believed, Hutchinson knew Kelly before she even arrived in London!

[harry]

Sam,
So their being in Whitechapell at the same time,may not have been coincidence.
Regards.

[Varqm]

I agree with you Observer and Richard. Ben's argument on why the Ripper came forward only on MJK's murder is long winded. He offers very
weak reasons on why the ripper did not on previous murders and even knows how the ripper reacted to those supposed reasons
(which requires a whole new set of info ). Speculative reasons and speculative reactions to those speculative reasons. It's too much.

As far as we know of the case the ripper killed and disappeared.

[Ben]

Ah, good, another one of my perpetual irritating shadows; Viagara or Vaseline or whatever his silly name is.

He offers very weak reasons on why the ripper did not on previous murders and even knows how the ripper reacted to those supposed reasons

So you're saying he could have waltzed forward and admitted to being Lawende's man, for example, despite the fact that he was seen ten minutes before the discovery of the body, effectively precluding the possibility of slipping in a "Mr. Astrakhan" somewhere between Lawende's sighting and the body discovery? Or what if he admitted he was Schwartz' man? "Yes, that was me hurling the victim the ground at around the same time she died, and yes, that was me hurling anti-semitic insults at a passer-by, but no, I didn't kill her!".

Then there's the fact that Lawende lived in Dalston, was visiting a Jewish club in the City, and was less likely to encounter Hutchinson again.

And finally, we know that witness descriptions weren't being withheld until after the double event, and anyone who has ever picked up a book on serial killers shouls know that killers will often alter their tactics as they learn of investigative progess.

You've asked me the question before, and I've answered. Not once have you taken the trouble to actually engage with the specific answers you were given, electing instead to opt for one-line put-downs.

[richardnunweek]

Hi,
Why oh why, do some people dish out insults when opinions differ?
Ben,the whole crux of the matter is you form the belief that Gh was physically involved in the MJK murder, and I among others do not.
If I promise not to throw rude words like balderdash about, could you refrain from using sarcastic tones.
From another irritatating shadow...
Regards Richard.

[Ben]

Ben,the whole crux of the matter is you form the belief that Gh was physically involved in the MJK murder, and I among others do not.

Wonderful, Richard, we're all different and long make it continue.

Anyone is free to disagree, and when it's done respectfully, the chances of any sparks being emitted is very slim. Varqm has asked me the question several times; "Why did Hutchinson come forward when he was seen this time, and not on previous occasions?" and each time I took the trouble to answer in detail. Not once did he bother to address the responses I provided; he just repeated the original objection as though it were never addressed, and it's incredibly insulting be be described as weak and "long-winded" just because I respected a poster enough to be thorough in my response.

[harry]

There is nothing really that can point to Hutchinson as telling the truth.The fact that he came forward,and placed himself at(or very near) the murder scene,is of little consequence,when balanced against the improbabilities and abnormal activities,he relates.For instance was it normal,even during that Autumn,to follow and wait 45 minutes,simply because of the clothes that were being worn,andIf he believed the man lived in the neighbourhood on what evidence does he base that belief.
Ben gives adequate reasons for his claims,it's about time the truth believers gave reasons for theirs,insted of the continued flimsy excuse that a guilty person would not come forward and expose(as in revealing his identity)himself.

[DVV]

As far as we know of the case the ripper killed and disappeared.

Who would deny?


Hi Harry,
"there is nothing really that can point out to Hutch as telling the truth."
True, and his behaviour is equally inconsistent.
For example (among several), his tale about the Sunday's policeman, his own irresoluteness (a hamletian : "To go or not to go to the police station..."), though he knew Kelly, the curious need to be convinced by friends (as he was stupid enough not to understand the importance of his statement) before going to the police, all this remarkable pusillanimity is simply the opposite of Hutch "Friday's personnality": a man who seems very self-assured, able to bear a stern look and to wander the streets alone, to follow and observe people, to wait, etc, that means someone able to think and act by himself.
A military appearance and a deserter behaviour!

Amitiés,
David

[DVV]

did you guys ever seen this clip
its from Holland i heart that there is a ripper copy cat on he loose there already killed 3 prostitutes in a ripper outfit.....
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=0NgGB2fEI50

I'll almost look at you suspiciously, if you come forward on a Hutchinson's thread.
How the weather in Holland?
Quite cold today here.

Amitiés,
David

[DVV]

If her biography (as recalled by Joe Barnett) is to be believed, Hutchinson knew Kelly before she even arrived in London!

Hi Sam,
that depends if you prefer Barnett 9 Nov statement, or the inquest, doesn't it?
If Mary, as Barnett said, was in London for 4 years, and had first worked some time in the West End before moving to Ratcliffe Highway etc, she may well have met Hutchinson and Fleming at about the same time......

Amitiés,
David

[Sam Flynn]

that depends if you prefer Barnett 9 Nov statement, or the inquest, doesn't it? If Mary, as Barnett said, was in London for 4 years, and had first worked some time in the West End before moving to Ratcliffe Highway etc, she may well have met Hutchinson and Fleming at about the same time......

Hutchinson claimed he'd known her for 5 years, though, Dave.

[Ben]

Hi Gareth,

According to Abberline's report it was three years:

"He informed me that he had occasionally given the deceased a few shillings, and that he had known her about 3 years".

I'd be very interested to know of any source that says five.

Best wishes,
Ben

[Sam Flynn]

I'd be very interested to know of any source that says five.

In hindsight, I might have got my wires crossed with Maurice Lewis, Ben. If so - apologies.

[DVV]

Hi Sam,
so it seems that there were two men living in the Victoria Home, at the time of the murders, who both knew Kelly for about 3 years, intimately enough to give her some shillings or ill-use her out of jalousy.
Could be a coincidence, but a very extraordinary one, given the role of Hutch and the fate of Fleming.

Amitiés,
David

[Sam Flynn]

Hi Sam,
so it seems that there were two men living in the Victoria Home, at the time of the murders, who both knew Kelly for about 3 years, intimately enough to give her some shillings or ill-use her out of jalousy.

Indeed, David. That's what prompted me - in a moment of weakness a year or so ago - to start the Alias Fleming & Hutch thread