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Why Didn't the Police Have Schwartz and/or Lawende Take a Look at Hutchinson?

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  • Originally posted by Sam Flynn View Post
    I remember asking this a few years ago, as I couldn't find any contemporary source that said her clothes were "neatly folded", and that remains the case. I think the idea is a more recent invention that's somehow slipped into accepted use.

    If you look at the sketch of Kelly's room which appeared in Reynolds News, which I believe was drawn by someone who was there, we see a pair of shoes kicked off in front of a chair, with what appears to be a coat loosely hanging off the back of it.
    I remember talking about that quote with Debs years ago, I just can't recall if we identified the source.

    This must be the pic you mention...
    Regards, Jon S.

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    • That's the drawing, Jon.
      Kind regards, Sam Flynn

      "Suche Nullen" (Nietzsche, Götzendämmerung, 1888)

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      • It looks like the coat was casually draped on the chair
        Of course Dew states that the/a coat was used as a curtain to block the window. Another of Dew's inconsistencies?

        Wolf.

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        • Originally posted by Wolf Vanderlinden View Post
          Of course Dew states that the/a coat was used as a curtain to block the window. Another of Dew's inconsistencies?

          Wolf.
          Sea pilot's coat,by memory?
          My name is Dave. You cannot reach me through Debs email account

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          • Originally posted by DJA View Post
            Sea pilot's coat,by memory?
            Dew just says that it was an "old coat". I don't know where the "[pilot] coat in the window" story originated, but I see that various press reports of 10th November say this: "It is stated that a man's pilot coat has been found in the murdered woman's room, but whether it belonged to one of her paramours or to the murderer has not."

            Did someone - Dew? - put two and two together to make five? Was the "coat in the window" a myth? In the press, Bowyer only seems to refer to pulling aside a [muslin] curtain or a blind, and says nothing about poking a great big [pilot] coat out of the way.

            Interesting!
            Last edited by Sam Flynn; 12-07-2018, 01:07 PM.
            Kind regards, Sam Flynn

            "Suche Nullen" (Nietzsche, Götzendämmerung, 1888)

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            • https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=1Bia9bxkzA8
              My name is Dave. You cannot reach me through Debs email account

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              • In the press, Bowyer only seems to refer to pulling aside a [muslin] curtain or a blind, and says nothing about poking a great big [pilot] coat out of the way.
                Yes, in Abberline's interview with Bowyer he writes that he "threw the blinds back and looked through the window." In the official inquest testimony transcript Bowyer says "...there was a curtain over the window I pulled the curtain aside and looked in..." Apparently no coat.

                The Star (12 November, 1888) says that the coat was considered to be an important clue when it was found in the room but, as it turned out to have belonged to Maria Harvey, led nowhere.

                I researched all this in some detail back in 2000/1 for my article Screams of Murder for Ripper Notes, but I don't think it got into the finished article. I did conclude at the time that Dew was the one who gave us the myth of the coat over the window and I think is another clue that he wasn't actually there on the 9th.

                Wolf.

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                • The Sunday Times, 11 Nov. 1888 provided a cursory plan view of the room.
                  A note 1 to this sketch reads:
                  Small window - broken, but covered with an old coat. It was through this window that the body was first seen.
                  Regards, Jon S.

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                  • One other small item of interest, at least for Gareth, reads:
                    "The clothes of the woman were lying by the side of the bed, as though they had been taken off and laid down in the ordinary manner."

                    I know we discussed the placement of her clothes somewhere, I just can't remember where, sorry.
                    Regards, Jon S.

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                    • Originally posted by Wickerman View Post
                      One other small item of interest, at least for Gareth, reads:
                      "The clothes of the woman were lying by the side of the bed, as though they had been taken off and laid down in the ordinary manner."

                      I know we discussed the placement of her clothes somewhere, I just can't remember where, sorry.
                      It might have been in connection with the origin of the "neatly folded" meme/myth, Jon.
                      Kind regards, Sam Flynn

                      "Suche Nullen" (Nietzsche, Götzendämmerung, 1888)

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                      • I've looked through the British Newspaper Archive and cannot find any mention of Bowyer talking about a coat on the Friday or Saturday. The Sunday Times on the 11th provides the first mention...

                        Regards, Jon S.

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                        • Originally posted by Wickerman View Post
                          The Sunday Times, 11 Nov. 1888 provided a cursory plan view of the room.
                          A note 1 to this sketch reads:
                          Small window - broken, but covered with an old coat. It was through this window that the body was first seen.
                          Updated score: Walter Dew one; mythbusters, nil.

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                          • Originally posted by rjpalmer View Post
                            Updated score: Walter Dew one; mythbusters, nil.
                            Correction: Sunday Times one, mythbusters nil.
                            Kind regards, Sam Flynn

                            "Suche Nullen" (Nietzsche, Götzendämmerung, 1888)

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                            • If the broken pane was stuffed by the coat, surely the Pilot coat, left there by Mrs Harvey (for cleaning?) must be a different coat?
                              Last edited by Wickerman; 12-08-2018, 07:15 AM.
                              Regards, Jon S.

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                              • Thomas Bowyer was apparently an ex-military man who had spent time in India.

                                Has it ever been established if Bowyer was a regular collector or a heavy, used for evictions etc?

                                The whole thing about McCarthy sending Bowyer to discover MJK has never sat well with me unless sending Bowyer was a regular thing.
                                Bona fide canonical and then some.

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