Any updates, or opinions on this witness.

[richardnunweek]

Hi,
I heard a medium on the radio claim to have had a seance with Mary Kelly. she claims Kelly was two months pregnant, and Mary kept saying I am not a prostitute, I am a lady. and one day I will be a fine lady.
On The night of her death, the medium claimed , she was not surprised by the person that killed her, although she was not expecting the killer at that stage, she saw no forced entry,
Worthless garbage , or is it?
Regards Richard.

[Sam Flynn]

Anything uttered by a medium is worthless garbage, Richard.

[Sam Flynn]

"If Mary roused and went out, she would have lit the half candle she had"

Do we know how big the candle was to begin with?

[Michael W Richards]

"If Mary roused and went out, she would have lit the half candle she had"

Do we know how big the candle was to begin with?

We don't have to, Sam. There was no light seen at 3am, and we know that roughly half a candle was found. We also know that the ashes were still warm when sieved that afternoon, at 3am its likely there were red embers.

[Sam Flynn]

She could have lit that candle several times during the night, in between scouting for punters on the streets. If the few, sporadic witnesses didn't see - or notice - any light at 3, that needn't have meant that Kelly was in bed, but that she had gone out, snuffing the candle before leaving. I doubt that she'd have left it wastefully burning away unattended.

[Michael W Richards]

She could have lit that candle several times during the night, in between scouting for punters on the streets. If the few, sporadic witnesses didn't see - or notice - any light at 3, that needn't have meant that Kelly was in bed, but that she had gone out, snuffing the candle before leaving. I doubt that she'd have left it wastefully burning away unattended.

The room was dark and silent at 1:30, by virtue of 2 witness statements, it was also noted as such at 3am. Same witness was outside the court, presumably fairly close to home since she pops in that night to warm her hands. She did not see Mary leave the court, nor did she see any change to the state of the room from her visit by at 1, to 3am, her last pass.

She was in arrears, she hadn't been working regularly due to her fears about the street...being a brothel type herself, and she arrives home apparently fed, bombed, and sings to her company for an hour before the lights go out. It was raining, she had no need of money after being fed and drunk and without any open places to spend said earnings, and the room is in her name and rented weekly. She didn't need doss for that night, and as McCarthy says, arrears are simply collected as "best as they can be".

No compelling financial need to streetwalk, Maslow's Immediate Needs taken care of ...food and lodging, physical and functional impairment due to alcohol, rainy conditions, and the fact that only a single witness says he saw her out in the middle of the night...one that is later discredited,..there is no valid reason to believe that she ever left that room again alive. And plenty to suggest she didn't.

[Sam Flynn]

The room was dark and silent at 1:30, by virtue of 2 witness statements, it was also noted as such at 3am.

That is fully conrguent with Mary being out and about on the streets in the small hours - like Nichols, Eddowes and Chapman before her.

[Abby Normal]

That is fully conrguent with Mary being out and about on the streets in the small hours - like Nichols, Eddowes and Chapman before her.

SAm
actually all the circs point to mary not going out again that night after Blotchy.
well other than hutches story of course. lol

[Sam Flynn]

Indeed, Abby, but the problem is that there are so few witnesses spread across a small number of hours during the night. Given those circumstances, how can we be sure that Kelly didn't go out again? She was desperate for money, and the rent was due, after all.

We had to wait some 60 years before CCTV was invented, so the only glimpses we get into Kelly's final hours are via the eyes and ears of a handful of witnesses. What Kelly got up to when there was nobody around to observe her is anyone's guess.

[Varqm]

The room was dark and silent at 1:30, by virtue of 2 witness statements, it was also noted as such at 3am. Same witness was outside the court, presumably fairly close to home since she pops in that night to warm her hands. She did not see Mary leave the court, nor did she see any change to the state of the room from her visit by at 1, to 3am, her last pass.

She was in arrears, she hadn't been working regularly due to her fears about the street...being a brothel type herself, and she arrives home apparently fed, bombed, and sings to her company for an hour before the lights go out. It was raining, she had no need of money after being fed and drunk and without any open places to spend said earnings, and the room is in her name and rented weekly. She didn't need doss for that night, and as McCarthy says, arrears are simply collected as "best as they can be".

No compelling financial need to streetwalk, Maslow's Immediate Needs taken care of ...food and lodging, physical and functional impairment due to alcohol, rainy conditions, and the fact that only a single witness says he saw her out in the middle of the night...one that is later discredited,..there is no valid reason to believe that she ever left that room again alive. And plenty to suggest she didn't.

I agree 1:30,2:30,3:00 > A.M.
And "I last saw her alive on Thursday night, at a quarter to twelve, very much intoxicated. '- Mary Ann Cox, Daily telegraph

There was no witness who noticed her or a young woman doing walking the streets and or talking to a client.The last sighting of her was she was in her room very drunk,until there was a sign/noise/movement to the contrary she must have stayed/slept.

---

[Sam Flynn]

There was no witness who noticed her or a young woman doing walking the streets and or talking to a client.

There was one.... there's a hint in the topic of this thread

[barnflatwyngarde]

That is fully conrguent with Mary being out and about on the streets in the small hours - like Nichols, Eddowes and Chapman before her.

I have already posted that I think it highly unlikely that Mary ventured out again that night after her assignation with Blotchy.

She was very drunk, was probably going to drink more (Blotchy's pail of beer) and it was raining that night.

Surely it is highly unlikely that Mary went out again that night, and highly unlikely that she was in any fit state to venture out again.

[Sam Flynn]

Don't get me wrong, I'm no Hutchinson apologist, but in the interests of balance, and as an ex-pisshead, I don't believe we can rule out the idea that Kelly went back out again after her "sesh" with Blotchy. We have few witnesses with anything concrete to report in Miller's Court, and there doesn't seem to have been too many people on the streets to act as witnesses outside Miller's Court, either.

[Simon Wood]

It's interesting to note that George Hutchinson's legendary encounter with MJK is always described as if it took place on an otherwise empty stage, whereas on the night/morning in question road gangs were at work tearing up Commercial Street to put the finishing touches to the Commercial Street Tramway, which opened on 15th November 1888.

George Hutchinson appears to have been oblivious to all this activity.

[Sam Flynn]

It's interesting to note that George Hutchinson's legendary encounter with MJK is always described as if it took place on an otherwise empty stage, whereas on the night/morning in question road gangs were at work tearing up Commercial Street to put the finishing touches to the Commercial Street Tramway, which opened on 15th November 1888.

George Hutchinson appears to have been oblivious to all this activity.

It rather depends on where the workers were deployed in relation to the events in and around Dorset Street. They couldn't have been working on the entire length of the tramway all of the time.