Hutchinsons statement....

[Flower and Dean]

(I'm not saying Hutchinson was telling the truth, or innocent, or anything. I'm just speculating here.)

No, I think you are spot on. I dare say many people had to be dishonest at times just to survive in the East End, a bit of lying, cheating, stealing, was probably necessary to get through the day for some people.
That doesn't mean they couldn't tell the truth for something as serious as this.
The police are quite willing to take statements from prostitutes, yet no-one would argue they are hardly the most honest people in the world out of sheer necessity.

Exactly, and don't forget that many of the locals could be wary of the police. I've read before that the amount of cooperation was actually very good, presumably because the crimes were so bad and shook the community so much. Still, I can see why someone living in the Victorian East End might hesitate before deciding to talk to the authorities.

Sara Lewis spoke at the November 12 inquest. That's when she described what could have been Kelly, the stranger, and Hutchinson waiting around nearby. Hutchinson then went to the police at 6 PM that same day. I don't know how quickly and widely talk of what was said at the inquest (or what people planned to say at the inquest) would circulate, but I wonder if maybe he realised the police could decide to search for the second man seen by Lewis and that prompted him to come forward at last.

[Abby Normal]

Just a quick apology that my last post appears twice (once is enough for anyone) I don't know how I managed it but I think it was while I was editing.

A question: earlier in the thread Abby Normal showed a photo that she claimed was Hutchinson. I can't recall ever seeing that before, but then again, I've been away from ripper stuff for a while. I may have it in a book somewhere and have just forgotten it.

Could someone tell me where the photo is from please.

With thanks
HS

hi HS
I'm a dude. the picture is from a ripperologist edition by author Sinise (sp?) that found a George Hutchinson in Australia jailed for a sex crime, and that he arrived from England shortly after the murder of McKenzie and the pinchin torso.

if ever there is a picture of the ripper, I think that it.

[Herlock Sholmes]

Hi: thanks for that. I definitely hadn't seen that picture before then. At least my memory hasn't completely abandoned me! I think that the next book on my 'to buy,' list is by him.

Thanks again
HS

[Sam Flynn]

if ever there is a picture of the ripper, I think that it.

Nah, "our man" is George Topping Hutchinson, not the Australian emigré. Trust me.

Don't be put off buying Stephen Senise's book, though. It's a good 'un.

[Herlock Sholmes]

Am I missing something here? If he came to England after Mackenzie how can he be significant?

HS

[Abby Normal]

Am I missing something here? If he came to England after Mackenzie how can he be significant?

HS

from england

[Herlock Sholmes]

My ability to read seems to have deserted me!

Cheers
HS

[Herlock Sholmes]

Another thought on Hutchinson

As I was pushing a shopping trolley around Tesco I had a thought. Well two. One was: what did I do to deserve to be in Tesco. And two: on the question of Hutchinson as the ripper. I'm sure that someone's mentioned this before but if he was Jack, intent on murder, why didn't he avail himself of the ideal situation when Kelly earlier approached him for cash? Surely it would have been all too easy? "Let's go back to your room and discus the matter." Kelly was a prostitute in need of money, he was the ripper in need of a victim. Surely it's slightly implausible to say that at the first instance he wasn't in the mood for murder but changed his mind shortly after? He then loiters suspiciously outside Millers Court for a while increasing the chances of someone recognising him.

Regards
HS

[Flower and Dean]

As I was pushing a shopping trolley around Tesco I had a thought. Well two. One was: what did I do to deserve to be in Tesco. And two: on the question of Hutchinson as the ripper. I'm sure that someone's mentioned this before but if he was Jack, intent on murder, why didn't he avail himself of the ideal situation when Kelly earlier approached him for cash? Surely it would have been all too easy? "Let's go back to your room and discus the matter." Kelly was a prostitute in need of money, he was the ripper in need of a victim. Surely it's slightly implausible to say that at the first instance he wasn't in the mood for murder but changed his mind shortly after? He then loiters suspiciously outside Millers Court for a while increasing the chances of someone recognising him.

Regards
HS

This is a very good question.

I suppose in a scenario in which Hutch is the Ripper, he could have either figured it was too early in the evening (meaning there would be more of a chance for him to get caught), or only thought of it after they spoke.

I could see him waiting around for the other man to leave in this scenario and trying to deflect the blame but like you say, it doesn't explain why he'd loiter where he could easily be seen and recognised by anyone passing by. It doesn't make much sense.

[Abby Normal]

As I was pushing a shopping trolley around Tesco I had a thought. Well two. One was: what did I do to deserve to be in Tesco. And two: on the question of Hutchinson as the ripper. I'm sure that someone's mentioned this before but if he was Jack, intent on murder, why didn't he avail himself of the ideal situation when Kelly earlier approached him for cash? Surely it would have been all too easy? "Let's go back to your room and discus the matter." Kelly was a prostitute in need of money, he was the ripper in need of a victim. Surely it's slightly implausible to say that at the first instance he wasn't in the mood for murder but changed his mind shortly after? He then loiters suspiciously outside Millers Court for a while increasing the chances of someone recognising him.

Regards
HS

Maybe he did and lied about it.

[Herlock Sholmes]

Hi: I've been thinking about it for 3 or 4 hours now and it still doesn't make sense to me. From the time that he first spoke to her until he allegedly saw this Oscar Wilde type dandy wasn't all that long. I can't see how he suddenly went from not looking for a victim to looking for a victim. Kelly was virtually offering herself up to him yet he walked away.

Regards
HS

[Herlock Sholmes]

Sorry I missed Abby Normal's post.

If he did why did Kelly refuse when she was desperate for cash and found another client almost immediately after?

Regards
HS

[MysterySinger]

Well, of course, there needn't have been a second man at all - merely an attempt by Hutch to deflect suspicion from himself. He could have told the Police anything at all (or even nothing).

[Abby Normal]

Sorry I missed Abby Normal's post.

If he did why did Kelly refuse when she was desperate for cash and found another client almost immediately after?

Regards
HS

Well he could have lied about that to, but
My take on what really happened is this:

The only part of hutchs story that is corroborated is his waiting there for about 45 minutes at about in between two and three am, by Sarah Lewis.


So this being the case what can we draw from this and what else we know about Mary's movement. We know she had blotchy in her place earlier, apparently singing to him, very drunk, maybe drinking more and or eating with him, fire going, nasty night out. To me it doesn't look like Mary had any intention of going out again that night even if she could.

I think hutch came by her place around 2ish, realized she was still with blotchy, waited for him to leave till about three, then left and came back around 4ish where he notices blotch has left, gained entrance and killed Mary. He lied about seeing Mary earlier that night and about Aman.

Of course this is the scenario I have if he's the ripper. He could have just been an attention seeker looking for personal gain, and of course the scenario would change. In which case IMHO blotchy killed and is the ripper.

[Varqm]

As has been argued many times a client or friend can setup an appointment,even double the amount to be paid,and kill Kelly with no Oh Murder.The unfortunate,if alone, can save roaming around the street at early mornings.The man seen by Sarah Lewis was an intruder and had no reason to come forward - he was also seen before killing Eddowes, Chapman.