Hutchinsons statement....

[GUT]

This is a bit of al long shot, but does anyone know if John McCarthy owned an astrachan coat? Obviously I'm not trying to imply anything, although interestingly he was 37 in 1888, so about 35 years of age!

But wouldn't Hutch have known who he was. If he had seen him around a bit.

[John G]

But wouldn't Hutch have known who he was. If he had seen him around a bit.

Yes, that's a very good point. Of course, Hutchinson's identity is shrouded in mystery so its difficult to determine how long he may have been living in the locality, and therefore how familiar, if familiar at all, the important local characters may have been to him.

[Sam Flynn]

Of course, Hutchinson's identity is shrouded in mystery...

Look no further, John, for this is he:

[GUT]

Yes, that's a very good point. Of course, Hutchinson's identity is shrouded in mystery so its difficult to determine how long he may have been living in the locality, and therefore how familiar, if familiar at all, the important local characters may have been to him.

But he reported it was someone he'd seen around, it seems likely he was familiar with MJK probably visited. But not know Mc. I struggle to accept it as a proposition.

[Abby Normal]

Look no further, John, for this is he:

[ATTACH]18039[/ATTACH]

nope. here he is.

[c.d.]

"All other witness descriptions in the whole case are similar innocuous statements as one would expect, yet hutch is got all this nonsense going on.
something aint right, and it dosnt take a genius (or it shouldn't) to see it.
Hes lying.

Hello Abby,

Assuming the above is correct that would indeed make him a liar. It does not however make him a murderer. Abberline and the rest of the boys at Scotland Yard might not have been geniuses but I don't think they were fools. Liar or not it would seem that they didn't think him involved in Mary's murder.

c.d.

[Abby Normal]

"All other witness descriptions in the whole case are similar innocuous statements as one would expect, yet hutch is got all this nonsense going on.
something aint right, and it dosnt take a genius (or it shouldn't) to see it.
Hes lying.

Hello Abby,

Assuming the above is correct that would indeed make him a liar. It does not however make him a murderer. Abberline and the rest of the boys at Scotland Yard might not have been geniuses but I don't think they were fools. Liar or not it would seem that they didn't think him involved in Mary's murder.

c.d.

I agree. He could have just been looking for gain.
Or a murderer. I can't get over the stalking behavior.

All we know is that abberline believed him.....initially. Remember though when hutch told abberline his story about waiting and watching,it was just after the inquest where Sarah Lewis talked about the waiting man. I think this is why abberline believed him at first.

[Wickerman]

Jon

While it was possible he was dressed the same, if Hutch had seen him around before, he didn't need to be dressed the same for Hutch to recognise him.

No, thats true.
What he is reported to have said was:
" I fancied that I saw him in Petticoat-lane on Sunday morning, but I was not certain."
So, maybe he only wore some of the same clothing, but not everything.

Ordinary people didn't have a variety of clothing, generally they wore all they owned, so they wore the same thing every day.
In the Doss-house they daren't even undress, if they did someone might pinch their 'stuff' while they were asleep.

In the case of Astrakhan, it appears he embellished his looks, so, similar to Joseph Isaacs, this character may have liked to pretend to be someone he wasn't.

[Wickerman]

This is a bit of al long shot, but does anyone know if John McCarthy owned an astrachan coat? Obviously I'm not trying to imply anything, although interestingly he was 37 in 1888, so about 35 years of age!

Hutchinson's 'suspect' apparently "looked Jewish".

[GUT]

No, thats true.
What he is reported to have said was:
" I fancied that I saw him in Petticoat-lane on Sunday morning, but I was not certain."

I was really referring to Hutch's statement that head seen Ash man around before the night he saw him with MJK

[GUT]

I had a great Aunt, born about 1902, who was known to many as Few Clothes, because she had only two changes of "Weekday" and one "Sunday Best" for many years, and her family was way better off than most of the doss house dwellers we read about hear.

[Varqm]

I have been reading the forum, listening to the podcasts, I rarely post as most seems to have been covered.
Some seem to find Hutchinsons statement as rather "too exact" "too precise" and discount it as untrue for those, I suppose, plausible reasons, I mean who takes THAT much notice?
But reading through it tonight, there is one part where Hutchinson states...
and I paraphrase....
"He hid his head ...I stooped down and looked at his face"
Thats surely someone who is paying careful attention isn't it?..
So maybe the rest of his statement may not be that far off the mark

This has been debated before, but if he was so detailed why not mention Sarah Lewis.Hutchinson's and Lewis's timings coincide. He could not have missed her.Just by that he was not an ordinary witness who would just tell things matter-of-factly.
Surely Kelly's murder would have been big news and he would have known about it.If he had known her for 3 years,giving her money here and there,concerned about her that early morning,that her companion was unusually attired and with a parcel in his left-hand,why would he not report to the police immediately.A 3-dollar bill.

[FrankO]

This has been debated before, but if he was so detailed why not mention Sarah Lewis.

That's easy, Varqm. Or, at least, that's it for me. If his appearance at the police station was prompted by Sarah Lewis's testimony, he wouldn't want to immediately get the police on that track. He would want to come across as an independent and helpful witness. So no mention of Lewis.

All the best,
Frank

[Abby Normal]

That's easy, Varqm. Or, at least, that's it for me. If his appearance at the police station was prompted by Sarah Lewis's testimony, he wouldn't want to immediately get the police on that track. He would want to come across as an independent and helpful witness. So no mention of Lewis.

All the best,
Frank

Bingo. Very astute FrankO!

[Fisherman]

That's easy, Varqm. Or, at least, that's it for me. If his appearance at the police station was prompted by Sarah Lewis's testimony, he wouldn't want to immediately get the police on that track. He would want to come across as an independent and helpful witness. So no mention of Lewis.

All the best,
Frank

And in what capacity would he seem not helpful and not independent for mentioning Lewis? Can you explain that to me?
I have always thought that a very weak explanation. If he wanted to put things beyond doubt, then he needed to mention Lewis, and he didnīt. So itīs a dead duck to me.