Hutchinsons statement....

[Fisherman]

Already there? Wonder Cox or Kennedy didn't bump into him.

Cox? Really?

[harry]

Already there? Wonder Cox or Kennedy didn't bump into him.

[The Good Michael]

Very hardy people in those times.About 3AM that morning it was raining heavy,so Cox says,the temperature was near freezing point,yet at least 5 people were either stood or walking in that small area from Millers Court to the Britannia.According to witnesses. And Hutchinson,poor bugger,chose to walk away,when just a few yards across the street,was shelter at Millers Court.

Drunkards seeking booze are always hardy.

Mike

[Fisherman]

Very hardy people in those times.About 3AM that morning it was raining heavy,so Cox says,the temperature was near freezing point,yet at least 5 people were either stood or walking in that small area from Millers Court to the Britannia.According to witnesses. And Hutchinson,poor bugger,chose to walk away,when just a few yards across the street,was shelter at Millers Court.

He did not even have to cross the street to reach the court, Harry - he stood at itīs entrance.

[Fisherman]

Repeated? No, in any case Kennedy would have had a different perspective unless they had the same pair of eyes.
I do not know about Bucks Row but I was never interested in the Lechmere theory one bit/moment, except we do not know what Lechmere was doing before Paul saw him.
Basics? In Miller's Court yes, every little bit of information from anybody who was present at that court in the early morning, did somebody heard footsteps or a door closing,conversations etc.,at what time,it would have changed their sense/reconstruction of what happened.

Yes, Kennedy would have had a different perspective. And so would a number of other people who were not summoned to the inquest, although they had information to offer that was never heard.

Itīs all good and well that you speak for a completer process, but what we are discussing out here is the reality, and in that reality, the coroner was somewhat sparse about these matters - as is well known.

[Fisherman]

Such as?

Thereīs another one ...

[harry]

Very hardy people in those times.About 3AM that morning it was raining heavy,so Cox says,the temperature was near freezing point,yet at least 5 people were either stood or walking in that small area from Millers Court to the Britannia.According to witnesses. And Hutchinson,poor bugger,chose to walk away,when just a few yards across the street,was shelter at Millers Court.

[Varqm]

Excuse me for asking, but is this where I ask why the police did not interview all the residents of Bucks Row (if they were so keen on doing the basics), and we can start going round in circles again?

Clearly (!), from time to time, the police missed out on "the basics". And you may have noted how Jon (Wickerman) suggested that the police DID the basics - but the coroner refrained from using Kennedy at the inquest, since he did not want things repeated.

The two things we can be sure about are easily pinpointed:

1. We are not going to agree about this, and...

2. ... that is because the matter is not a clear one.

Repeated? No, in any case Kennedy would have had a different perspective unless they had the same pair of eyes.
I do not know about Bucks Row but I was never interested in the Lechmere theory one bit/moment, except we do not know what Lechmere was doing before Paul saw him.
Basics? In Miller's Court yes, every little bit of information from anybody who was present at that court in the early morning, did somebody heard footsteps or a door closing,conversations etc.,at what time,it would have changed their sense/reconstruction of what happened.

[Wickerman]

Yes, so the Coroner must have been very interested in when Mary took her last meal?

Funnily enough I don't see him asking anyone about it.

Perhaps, another indication he knew more than the usual coroner would.
It's only reasonable to assume that information was known as it formed part of the evidence Dr. Bond would use to arrive at the conclusion he did.

[David Orsam]

You were referring to rigor being the clue to her time of death, but Bond also looked at digestion, which changed the estimation.

Yes, so the Coroner must have been very interested in when Mary took her last meal?

Funnily enough I don't see him asking anyone about it.

[Wickerman]

Yes "about 12 hours" not "exactly 12 hours".

From 3:00am to 2:00pm (when Bond says he visited Dorset Street) is 11 hours. That's "about 12 hours" is it not?

You were referring to rigor being the clue to her time of death, but Bond also looked at digestion, which changed the estimation.

[Wickerman]

Lets just have the whole paragraph.

"Rigor mortis had set in, but increased during the progress of the examination. From this it is difficult to say with any degree of certainty the exact time that had elapsed since death as the period varies from 6 to 12 hours before rigidity sets in. The body was comparatively cold at 2 o'clock and the remains of a recently taken meal were found in the stomach and scattered about over the intestines. It is, therefore, pretty certain that the woman must have been dead about 12 hours and the partly digested food would indicate: that death took place about 3 or 4 hours after the food was taken, so one or two o'clock in the morning would be the probable time of the murder."

[David Orsam]

You left out the bit where he concludes, "it is, therefore, pretty certain that the woman must have been dead about 12 hours..."

Yes "about 12 hours" not "exactly 12 hours".

From 3:00am to 2:00pm (when Bond says he visited Dorset Street) is 11 hours. That's "about 12 hours" is it not?

[Sam Flynn]

I'm sure if Wynne-Baxter had been the coroner we would have had considerably more testimony, but then Wynne-Baxter was not a medical man.

I agree. Probably my biggest frustration/regret about the Ripper case is that Baxter was not in charge of the Kelly inquest.

[David Orsam]

He has already read the evidence (ie; witness statements), so he knew there wasn't anything of value to contest Dr. Bond.

Well hold on, I think you must mean Dr Phillips. Bond was giving a report to Anderson not the Coroner.

You can't seriously think that the Coroner was able to rule out a time of death at 3:00am, sufficiently to rule out witness evidence which saw Kelly alive at that time, can you?

And don't you find it strange that the Coroner asked Sarah Lewis so many questions about the man who accosted her in Bethnal Green considering that she also saw him outside the Britannia at a time when the Coroner believed Kelly had already been murdered and the killer's accomplice was waiting outside Miller's Court for him to emerge from number 13?

Those questions are below:

Have you seen any suspicious persons in the district ? - On Wednesday night I was going along the Bethnal-green-road, with a woman, about eight o'clock, when a gentleman passed us. He followed us and spoke to us, and wanted us to follow him into an entry. He had a shiny leather bag with him.
Did he want both of you ? - No; only one. I refused. He went away and came back again, saying he would treat us. He put down his bag and picked it up again, saying, "What are you frightened about ? Do you think I've got anything in the bag ?" We then ran away, as we were frightened.
Was he a tall man ? - He was short, pale-faced, with a black moustache, rather small. His age was about forty.
Was it a large bag ? - No, about 6in to 9in long. His hat was a high round hat. He had a brownish overcoat, with a black short coat underneath. His trousers were a dark pepper-and-salt.
After he left you what did you do ? - We ran away.
Have you seen him since ? - On Friday morning, about half-past two a.m., when I was going to Miller's-court, I met the same man with a woman in Commercial-street, near Mr. Ringer's public-house (the Britannia). He had no overcoat on.
Had he the black bag ? - Yes.
Were the man and woman quarrelling ? - No; they were talking. As I passed he looked at me. I don't know whether he recognised me. There was no policeman about

All a complete waste of time as far as the Coroner was concerned?