The profession of Jack the Ripper.

[Monty]

Cheers Monty, I recall a source mentioning that there was a pub in operation in Mitre Square previous to the "Ripper" period, do you know anything about that?

http://forum.casebook.org/showthread.php?t=469

Monty

[Bridewell]

I've been reading about Lawende's statement and I agree that he could very well have been mistaken, and it seems the other two witnesses didn't even identify the woman as Eddowes.

Watkins testified he had been at Mitre Square at 01:30 AM, but as you very well point out, he could have lied about that to protect his job and reputation.

As for the three exits, if the murdered had been seen by a policeman while performing the mutilations and the policeman had blown his whistle he would probably have been detained by the crowd if he left the square running (I don't know how crowded the streets were at the time, I'll have to do some research about that, but I'm assuming there was a good number of people on the street). But if he had time to leave just before the policeman entered the square, he'd be almost home free.

I'm probably committing some rookie mistakes, I'm not your league in terms of knowledge of the details and I'm still learning, so please forgive me if I'm wasting your time.

Regards.

El Pombo,

You're not wasting my time or anybody else's and my knowledge of the details is only what I've picked from others, principally "The Ultimate Jack the Ripper Sourcebook".

[Bridewell]

So I agree with you Pierre that Mitre Square is more like a yard than a street (Mitre Street). So much so that one policeman on his beat only looked into it.

Pc Harvey didn't enter Mitre Square because it was not part of his beat. Mitre Square is, or at least was, a public square. It is/was not a yard.

Even though the Ripper murders were at their height, JTR had no problem finding 5 victims.

The number of victims is debated. Sir Melville MacNaghten wrote of there being five victims and five only. I don't think it's safe to conclude, as a matter of certainty, that he was right (although he may have been).

.

[DJA]

[B] Do you think that the killer could have used an empty house in Mitre Square?

There was also a very small yard behind the site where they found the body. Could he have used it?

Have long considered Jack used 6 Mitre Street as a home away from home when busy.

Probably where Eddowes was headed.

( Remember Eddowes....Mary Ann Kelly of 6 Fashion Street.....the actual name of the last murdered woman and the false address of Stride's).

Probably where she got a part payment earlier and arranged that nights meeting with "Jack" and Stride.

A strangled Eddowes could have been passed through the gate to the position she was found.

Anyone who would like to do a Title Search for me can send me a PM.
I will cover their expenses.
Bonus further down the line when my project goes into production.

Incidentally,if my memory serves me ,there was a policeman and family residing at 6 Mitre Street several years earlier ,so the owner at that time had to be beyond reproach,if you get my drift.

[GUT]

Dd Jack have a true Profession??

Personally I doubt it.

[GUT]

Dd Jack have a true Profession??

Personally I doubt it.

Actually I'm not even persuaded he had a steady job.

[DJA]

I recall a source mentioning that there was a pub in operation in Mitre Square previous to the "Ripper" period

The Bull Inn's lane way used to extend well into Mitre Square.

Still some old maps if you want to Google.

[DJA]

Actually I'm not even persuaded he had a steady job.

At least you now have an equal to discuss the matter with

[SuspectZero]

Hi Steve,

you answered David when he suggested that I "misunderstood" the map. But David misunderstood what I wrote since I merely asked "Where is the third entrance/exit?"

As you (and also David now) can see, that is a very simple question.

And Steve - you have been repeating as a "fact" that Mitre Square was a "street". when I have said it was more like a yard.

But even in 1888 there were people perceiving of Mitre Square as a yard:

”Mitre Square is a sort of huge yard...”

(Sunderland Daily Echo and Shipping Gazette - Monday 01 October 1888).

But I have another question for you, Steve: Do you think that the killer could have used an empty house in Mitre Square for killing and mutilating Eddowes - and afterwards placed her in the square?

There was also a very small yard behind the site where they found the body. Could he have used it?

(What arguments could there be for and against that?)

This Goad´s Map here is from 1887 but in 1888, according to Sugden, there were three empty houses (in the green circle) just beside the spot where they found Eddowes (the red x).

Regards, Pierre

Pierre - This the 2nd time (the first being an inference regarding the Kelly murder) that you have suggested the murderer used empty buildings in the perpetration of the murders. Is that one of the foundations of your theory?

[SuspectZero]

Great, thanks!

Regards, Pierre

Pierre I'm curious why, after chastising most of the members of this forum over their facts, you so readily accept what Monty says in this regard. Are you now willing to concede that members of this forum actually have usueful contributions to this case?

[el_pombo]

Which also means that the police would have to cover three exits in order to catch him surely? More likely than an accomplice, in my view, is knowledge that Watkin used Kearley & Tonge as a tea-spot (probably spending the duration of one circuit of his beat, but no longer, with Morris). There is an old saying in the trade:

"A good policeman never gets wet".

It had not long stopped raining when the body was found, which must raise this as a possibility. My view is that Watkin sheltered from the rain and Lawende was mistaken in thinking that the woman he had seen was Eddowes.

I was thinking about this again and, looking at the map, something occurred to me. Mitre Square was, according to testimony from the time, a quiet place and, if Watkins was sheltering from the rain with Morris at Kearley & Tonge, they had to be doing one of two things: Either they were talking, or they were quiet. If they were quiet, being Mitre Square a relatively silent place, wouldn't they have heard the killer entering the square with Eddowes and have a look? If they were talking, wouldn't the killer have heard them and abort his plan?

This is all speculation, and I guess it depends on the type of building, distance, and ambient noise, do you know if there's any information available about this?

EDIT: Well, if it was raining, maybe that would have have been enough to smother the sound, does anyone know how hard it was raining?

All the best.

[Wickerman]

I was thinking about this again and, looking at the map, something occurred to me. Mitre Square was, according to testimony from the time, a quiet place and, if Watkins was sheltering from the rain with Morris at Kearley & Tonge, they had to be doing one of two things: Either they were talking, or they were quiet. If they were quiet, being Mitre Square a relatively silent place, wouldn't they have heard the killer entering the square with Eddowes and have a look? If they were talking, wouldn't the killer have heard them and abort his plan?

This is all speculation, and I guess it depends on the type of building, distance, and ambient noise, do you know if there's any information available about this?

EDIT: Well, if it was raining, maybe that would have have been enough to smother the sound, does anyone know how hard it was raining?

All the best.

It had been raining sufficiently hard to make Lawende, Levy & Harris hang back about five minutes in the Imperial Club while it passed.

[Rosella]

^ I think the killer hearing Morris and Watkins would depend on where the cuppa they were doubtless enjoying was being boiled up. If Morris had a habit of boiling the kettle on the hob in a front office, fair enough. If they were enjoying their tea, putting their feet up, in some sort of caretaker room at the back, they probably wouldn't hear anything and Jack wouldn't hear them, IMHO. The sound of the rain lashing against the windows would add an extra element, I suppose.

[DJA]

It had been raining sufficiently hard to make Lawende, Levy & Harris hang back about five minutes in the Imperial Club while it passed.

Eddowes was discharged just on 1am.

L, L & Harris left the Club ~ 1.34am.

Eddowes was discovered at 1.44am 400 metres from the police station.

Is there anything to suggest she was wet from the rain?

Appears by most theories that she was out in the rain for anything up to 1/2 an hour.

[Wickerman]

Eddowes was discharged just on 1am.

L, L & Harris left the Club ~ 1.34am.

Eddowes was discovered at 1.44am 400 metres from the police station.

Is there anything to suggest she was wet from the rain?

Appears by most theories that she was out in the rain for anything up to 1/2 an hour.

I've stood on one side of the street watching it rain on the other side, I expect most people are aware of that.