The local guy hypothesis without evidence

[Wickerman]

WICKERMAN. I have my doubts that she was clever enough to contrive the term "shabby genteel" for the purposes of her description.

By what measure have you determined how clever she was?

[Damaso Marte]

Hi,

No, he didnīt flee into Whitechapel. He walked from Mitre Square 10 minutes to a hiding place outside of Whitechapel, left what he took from Eddowes there, washed up, took the piece of apron and a chalk with him, went back and left the two pieces of evidence, then went back to the hiding place.

This night was extremely well planned. As was Millerīs Court.

Occamīs razor sometimes cuts away important things.

Regards Pierre

Link?

[RockySullivan]

Hi,

If the local guy is the dismemberment murderer, what did he do in Battersea and Chelsea?

Regards Pierre

Or...or....what did he do near Pinchin st and Whitehall? The ripper murders are close together, and the victims all had lived very close at one time but the Torso murders are spread out, with one being in the heart of the ripper's territory. What would make the killer dump the torsos along the thames? I would say the place where TK dismembered was somewhere close to the thames. Can anyone identify a central location of the torso dumps (possibly excluding pinchin)? The torso dumps should be nearer to the murder site, as it's harder to carry a body. But it always could have been on a boat. The killer could have lived in whitechapel and chose to kill on the streets there because it involved no cleanup and a quick getaway home and could have dismembered not at home but somewhere else.

[RockySullivan]

JtR wasn't the Torso killer, as the MO/signatures are drastically different. Moreover, there's no proof that most of the Torso victims were even murdered.

Again...the pinchin torso: The jury at once returned a verdict of "Wilful murder against some person or persons unknown."

But don't let the facts get in the way of your opinion!

[DJA]

Link?

Missing.

[John G]

Again...the pinchin torso: The jury at once returned a verdict of "Wilful murder against some person or persons unknown."

But don't let the facts get in the way of your opinion!

What on earth are you talking about? I said that there was no proof that "most" of the victims were murdered not "all". Personally, I find it helpful to read posts properly!

[Pierre]

Link?

No link. My own data sources.

Pierre

[Pierre]

Or...or....what did he do near Pinchin st and Whitehall? The ripper murders are close together, and the victims all had lived very close at one time but the Torso murders are spread out, with one being in the heart of the ripper's territory. What would make the killer dump the torsos along the thames? I would say the place where TK dismembered was somewhere close to the thames. Can anyone identify a central location of the torso dumps (possibly excluding pinchin)? The torso dumps should be nearer to the murder site, as it's harder to carry a body. But it always could have been on a boat. The killer could have lived in whitechapel and chose to kill on the streets there because it involved no cleanup and a quick getaway home and could have dismembered not at home but somewhere else.

Hi,

yes, a central location is Battersea Park.

And it is interesteing when you change perspective, isnīt it?

If you try that a few times you will perhaps start working with the hypothesis that his comfort zone is much larger than just Whitechapel. How come? What sort of a person would like to make an area between the east and west end his territory? Where is the middle point of that area? Where is his own home?

Pierre

[RockySullivan]

What on earth are you talking about? I said that there was no proof that "most" of the victims were murdered not "all". Personally, I find it helpful to read posts properly!

That actually is my bad because I read it as "any"...sorry about that

[Ben]

MRS LONG: I dunno, officer... He was shabbily dressed. Kinda had a genteel manner. I guess you could say he was a... shabby-genteel lol.

She's using a ready-made description.

Undoubtedly so, Robert.

A ready-made description which means (according to the dictionary):

"Trying to maintain dignity and self-respect despite shabbiness"

The poorest dock-workers shaved their heads to prevent lice, but "tried to maintain dignity and self-respect" by keeping a small tuft of hair visible above the forehead and under the hat-line.

[Ben]

Hi Jon,

“You might want to read up on what "Genteel" means with regard to attire.”

You might want to read up on what the specific expression “shabby genteel” actually meant when used by actual east-enders in reference to people they had actually seen in 1888. I refer again to the case of the stranger from Mrs. Fiddymont’s pub - the wild-eyed ruffian with the torn shirt and ill-fitting pepper-and-salt trousers (“villainously” ill-fitting apparently!). He too was described as having a “shabby genteel” look, and yet his appearance was a million miles away from “respectable”; hardly the owner of one of these “small businesses” I keep hearing about. The “genteel” aspect probably stemmed from an impression that the clothes were once of good quality and/or style, but had since fallen into disrepair to the extent that they appeared “shabby; most likely as a result of being pawned several times over. Think Fagin and you probably won’t be far off.

Regards,
Ben

[curious4]

Hi,

Ripperologists sometimes seem to favour the "local guy" hypothesis even if they have no evidence connecting a person to the murders.

Perhaps they assume that most victims are murdered by someone they know. So it has to be someone living in the area.

My research has led me to a theory that opposes such a view. The person I have found did not live in Whitechapel. And still I have data connecting him to the murders.

Why would this person want to walk around in Whitechapel?

And why would all the local guys do the same?

This question of course says nothing about motives (although I know his motives).

But does it perhaps say anything about probability?

Another interesting question is:

If the local guy is the dismemberment murderer, what did he do in Battersea and Chelsea?

Regards Pierre

Would that be Battersea fun fair? Or the power station?

http://www.wandsworth.gov.uk/info/200064/local_history_and_heritage/123/story_of_wandsworth/15

C4

[Rosella]

Or the Chelsea Flower Show?

[John G]

That actually is my bad because I read it as "any"...sorry about that

No problem!

[Jon Guy]

No, he didnīt flee into Whitechapel. He walked from Mitre Square 10 minutes to a hiding place outside of Whitechapel, left what he took from Eddowes there, washed up, took the piece of apron and a chalk with him, went back and left the two pieces of evidence, then went back to the hiding place.

Evidence ?