Jack the Ripper is an extremely rare serial killer

[curious4]

Hello John

Beg to differ. Tabram's face was said to be so swollen it was almost unrecognisable, Chapman's tongue was protruding, Kate's hands were clenched, all signs of strangulation. Even Stride's hand was so clenched that they had to prise the cachous from her hand. I do agree with you about the piquerism though.

Best wishes
C4

[John G]

It's possible that the victims were strangled, however, there is no conclusive evidence either way. The Keppel study is usesful, but should be considered critically. For instance, picquerism is cited as a main signature characteristic, even though it's at least questionable as to whether such a condition actually exists. And, as has been pointed out, picquerism is usually associated with sadism, but I don't see JtR as a sadist. Reliance on the HITS database, I.e. in determining the rarity of the crimes/signature characteristics, has already been discussed: I've no doubt that these crimes are very rare, nonetheless we obviously can't assume that data from 1880s London would equate with modern data from Washington State.

[curious4]

Sorry, duplicate post! Happened when I was editing, read the second pls.

[curious4]

Cause of death

Hello Pierre

Sorry if I was a bit harsh. What I said was that they were choked into unconsciousness. Of course the cause of death was blood loss following severance of the carotid artery.

Your source seems to rely quite heavily on JTR books for information - something I thought you disapproved of, as they do contain inaccuracies. There is no evidence that all the women were prostituting themselves when killed. The keeper of the lodging house where Kate lived, for example, stated that she was never known to sell herself and Liz Stride had no need to that night, she had both money and something to sell if need be. The strangulation while they were lifting their skirts is not fact, but someone's theory. Whoever wrote this eould have done better to go directly to the sources for information.

We have come to expect better of you Pierre.

Best wishes
C4

PS We know that the murders were unusual - that is why people are still trying to solve them

[curious4]

Cause of death

Hello Pierre

Sorry if I was a bit harsh. What I said was that they were choked into unconsciousness. Of course the cause of death was blood loss following severance of the carotid artery.

Your source seems to rely quite heavily on JTR books for information - something I thought you disapproved of, as they do contain inaccuracies. There is no evidence that all the women were prostituting themselves when killed. The keeper of the lodging house where Kate lived, for example, stated that she was never known to sell herself and Liz Stride had no need to that night, she had both money and something to sell if need be. The strangulation while they were lifting their skirts is not fact, but someone's theory. Whoever wrote this eould have done better to go directly to the sources for information.

We have come to expect better of you Pierre.

Best wishes
C4

[Pierre]

Doesn't mention that the victims were first choked into unconsciousness. They were not subdued by the knife. No, I'm wrong, it does in one place.
Also the Victorians kept very good records. I wouldn't call this a good source exactly, nothing new.

C4

Thank you so much C4 for enlightening us all on this subject. Now everybody finally knows that the couse of death for all victims (I presume since you write "the victims") was strangulation.*irony*

Pierre

[curious4]

Doesn't mention that the victims were first choked into unconsciousness. They were not subdued by the knife. No, I'm wrong, it does in one place.
Also the Victorians kept very good records. I wouldn't call this a good source exactly, nothing new.

C4

[Pierre]

I don't doubt these findings, but is there a link to this research? I think it would be an interesting read.

Here you go:

http://onlinelibrary.wiley.com/doi/10.1002/jip.22/abstract;jsessionid=A0B99A1363D835CFCA70BA6F539D5613.f01t02

[Pierre]

And that seems to be a reoccurring mistake made by many who look at the case, applying modern standards and conditions ton1888 East End and drawing conclusions based in current conditions.

Agree. And we donīt have data for serial killers in 19th century UK.

Regards Pierre

[gnote]

Hi,

Just wondering - how many of you out there know that Jack the Ripper is an extremely rare serial killer?

Research shows that his modus operandi is very unusual. For example Keppel et al (2005) has shown that the murders of this serial killer were linked by distinct personal signature characteristics.

They compared his murders to a 1981-1995 cohort of 3359 homicide cases in the US. The signature characteristics displayed in the murders of Jack the Ripper was found to be extremely rare.

There were only 6-8 cases where they found partly similar signatures in the whole cohort of 3359 cases.

So what do you think about this? And do you think it can effect the search for him and the research about him? How and why?

Pierre

I don't doubt these findings, but is there a link to this research? I think it would be an interesting read.

[SirJohnFalstaff]

Close enough, Sir John. What Lecter actually says is that he covets...

Oops. My English wasn't that good at the time. Need to watch it again.

[GUT]

"Regarding the rarity of the crimes, this is based on data from the HITS database, which applies to Washington State (it also assumes that Keppel was correct in his signature analysis). However, we cannot assume that contemporary data derived from a relatively sparsely populated, and largely rural, north-western American state would be equally applicable to a late Victorian, densely populated, English metropolis, i.e London."

I agree.

C4

And that seems to be a reoccurring mistake made by many who look at the case, applying modern standards and conditions ton1888 East End and drawing conclusions based in current conditions.

[Pierre]

"Regarding the rarity of the crimes, this is based on data from the HITS database, which applies to Washington State (it also assumes that Keppel was correct in his signature analysis). However, we cannot assume that contemporary data derived from a relatively sparsely populated, and largely rural, north-western American state would be equally applicable to a late Victorian, densely populated, English metropolis, i.e London."

I agree.

C4

Of course.

Pierre

[Pierre]

Hi Pierre,

I think it means it is highly unlikely that more than one killer (or just possibly a pair of killers working together) was responsible for all the Whitechapel mutilation murders from 1888 to 1891.

Love,

Caz
X

Very intelligent thinking. Congratulations.

Best regards, Pierre

[curious4]

"Regarding the rarity of the crimes, this is based on data from the HITS database, which applies to Washington State (it also assumes that Keppel was correct in his signature analysis). However, we cannot assume that contemporary data derived from a relatively sparsely populated, and largely rural, north-western American state would be equally applicable to a late Victorian, densely populated, English metropolis, i.e London."

I agree.

C4