What would it take?

[GUT]

Notorised photos of him killing each victim wouldn't convince many here.

[GUT]

Whatever it is is probably going to involve exhuming the bodies of the C5 whose graves are known. For example, if we could get DNA from Eddowes actual corpse (and they got DNA from King Tut's mummy, so Eddowes is not too long dead), then we could verify the scrap of apron was hers or not. Then we could look for things like body fluids on it that were male in origin. Doubtless there are dozens of touch DNA samples from the police, but one does not expect to find blood or semen from the police. Now, there may not be any fluids from the Ripper on it either, but I'm just saying this is what it would take.

Yes, I know that if Eddowes has female descendants with her mitochondrial DNA, exhumation might not be necessary, but exhumation would mean an autopsy by modern standards as well. Did she really have nephritis? Did she have any STDs? if she did, then anyone who cut her could have infected himself with her strain of syphilis. So we'll need a good candidate, who will also need to be exhumed.

I understand the UK government doesn't take such things lightly, and isn't likely to give consent, absent family consent, so good luck with this.

But I think this is what it would take.

Other than that, there could be something serendipitous, but what, I can't imagine-- or, I can imagine lots of fanciful things, which I don't need to write a long post listing them all. But, some kind of iron-clad diary, unlike the Mike Barrett mess, you know. Something which doesn't raise more questions than it answers.

I'm not as confident on the DNA angle.

Whilst i think hers would be fine, I'm not so sure that any left by the perp would survive.

[belinda]

What incontrovertible piece of evidence would it take for everyone to say... Ah well,reckon that's it

I don't believe there is anything that could do that

[curious4]

Notorised photos of him killing each victim wouldn't convince many here.

Very true! :-)

C4

[GUT]

Very true! :-)

C4

And maybe, given the pups some try to sell, there's no wonder why.

[RivkahChaya]

When someone's candidate is some ordinary shmo, who couldn't possibly be known save for the newly discovered evidence, I'll be listening. I actually was very interested in the Lechmere theory at first, but after considering it, I decided against it. But the evidence won't be Walter Sickert's painting style, nor his mysterious penis surgery.

[Pierre]

What incontrovertible piece of evidence would it take for everyone to say... Ah well,reckon that's it

Hi,

it takes independent, valid and reliable historical data clearly related to the crimes. Every piece of data must have a connection to the same suspect and they must be able to give a pattern of the actions of the killer as well as of the profile of this suspect. The "suspect" and the "killer" must be overlapping, that is they have to be like twins, and they have to explain eachother. You have to solve problems on the way as well, historically known problems that ripperologists have discussed for a long time. If you do, you will know that you have the right data.

Of course you must also have sources that can connect the suspect to several of the crimes.

Pierre

[Patrick S]

Well. I know it's is not now and would likely never be the 'that's one coincidence too many' angle. Espeicially when someone trying to peddle a convoluted, counter-intuitive, high subjective "conclusion" determines what constitutes a coincidence. As we are seeing now, that's a rather hard sell, internationally sent documentary or no.

Now that I've got that off my chest......

The longer I've studied this thing, the more I've become convinced that evidence of that sort will never surface, because it is nearly impossible for it to exist, after all this time. I suppose some scenario involving DNA could unfold, that may leave little doubt. Let's say you exhumed several victims and found identical DNA on all the victims. Then set about testing descendents of some of the "suspects" and got a match. Of course, there would have to be no other plausible connection between the suspect and the victim(s). For instance, if you found Tumblety's DNA present on Eddowes, Tabram, Chapman, and Kelly, then I'd say, "case closed". At this point, though, I think finding such DNA is either nearly or entirely impossible.

Short of that, I think that if files surfaced that showed the police made an arrest but for whatever reason did not make it public (unlikely). In the files we'd have the name of the suspect, the circumstance of the arrest, and the evidence that led to the arrest. That evidence would have to be something that convinces, even after 127+ years (unlikely). The contents of the file would then have to be - at least to some extent - independently verfied (unlikely). I might buy that.

[caz]

Whatever it is is probably going to involve exhuming the bodies of the C5 whose graves are known. For example, if we could get DNA from Eddowes actual corpse (and they got DNA from King Tut's mummy, so Eddowes is not too long dead), then we could verify the scrap of apron was hers or not. Then we could look for things like body fluids on it that were male in origin. Doubtless there are dozens of touch DNA samples from the police, but one does not expect to find blood or semen from the police. Now, there may not be any fluids from the Ripper on it either, but I'm just saying this is what it would take.

One small problem with this, Rivkah. The scrap of apron would need to be found first and established as the same one Eddowes was wearing when killed. The portion found in Goulston St was verified as part of her apron at the time, but none of it has survived as far as we know.

Where is that bugger Amos Simpson when we need him again (like a hole in the head )?

Love,

Caz
X

[Abby Normal]

I think there is still hope(very small however) that it can be solved-to at least a consensus anyway.

I think its going to take a descendent /family member to find some evidence left behind by the killer(written confession/diary etc,, knife, trophies, newspaper clippings from the time etc.)that can be tested, dated and verified, Possibly anecdotal stories,and a suspect who's background jibes with the known facts. and probably needing to be a known suspect, or at least witness, who was already tied to the case. without a far fetched motive.

Probably NOT coming from any missing/found police files, or secret special branch files, or found reminiscence of a retired police officer.

[barnflatwyngarde]

I think there is still hope(very small however) that it can be solved-to at least a consensus anyway.

I think its going to take a descendent /family member to find some evidence left behind by the killer(written confession/diary etc,, knife, trophies, newspaper clippings from the time etc.)that can be tested, dated and verified, Possibly anecdotal stories,and a suspect who's background jibes with the known facts. and probably needing to be a known suspect, or at least witness, who was already tied to the case. without a far fetched motive.

Probably NOT coming from any missing/found police files, or secret special branch files, or found reminiscence of a retired police officer.

I agree Abby.

I think an old family document with some verifiable info would just about do the trick, although I would settle for the discovery of the unexplained suicide of a blotchy faced resident of Whitechapel in late 1888.

[Abby Normal]

I agree Abby.

I think an old family document with some verifiable info would just about do the trick, although I would settle for the discovery of the unexplained suicide of a blotchy faced resident of Whitechapel in late 1888.

You got that right.
Or at least the death or incarceration of a blotchy faced man in mid 1889 as I see Mckenzie as a ripper victim.

[curious4]

How about footage from a security camera?

[John G]

Incontrovertible DNA evidence, so not of the mitochondrial variety (Russell Edwards take note), although if this is provided by Dr Louhelainen I reserve the right to remain unconvinced!

[GUT]

How about footage from a security camera?

notorized?